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Shake the Disease

Posted by editor on May 4, 2007 at 5:12 AM PDT

Are Silverlight and Apollo really the future of the web?

It's not on the front page (because it has little to do with Java), but there's an interesting theme going on in the web world that we'd be wise to pay attention to, and that's the emergence of several rich-client would-be successors to HTML and Ajax. The Dive Into Mark blog calls this the Silly Season, castigating Microsoft for trying to "recreate the web in their own image" with Silverlight , and Adobe for trying to do the same thing with Apollo. Both of them try to impose their proprietary runtimes, graphics and animations frameworks, video codecs, etc., and are tied up in restrictive licenses. Also, the clients only run on recent versions of Mac and Windows. And Elliotte Rusty Harold slaps Silverlight (actually, I've already switched to the disparaging term Silverfish; do join in the fun) for making the VRML mistake, meaning that they released a dev kit only for Windows and not for Mac (or Linux, or anything else). They apparently believe that the idea of developing for Silverfish is more appealing than the idea of developing on a Mac. As Elliotte writes, "Microsoft expects the creators and consumers to come to them." Yeah, good luck with that, guys.

Not that Java is entirely free of this line of thinking -- ME development is only just now being supported on Linux, and Mac is apparently off the radar. And yes, I did complain about that, almost four years ago.

But back to Mark's blog, there's an interesting hubris in assuming that HTML and Ajax are destined to hit the wall, and soon, and to start lining up proprietary successors now. Heck, didn't some of us look into applets 10 years ago based on similar assumptions about HTML's viability?

And speaking of Java, Mark also writes:

Not to be outdone, Sun is working on an "alternative" to AJAX, because"AJAX sort of deals with all of the old way of doing things. It makes it simpler, which is great, but underneath it’s still all this junky HTML, Document Object Model, CSS, all that stuff." (discussion) To their credit, they claim they will release it as open source, and I'd bet it'll work on Linux, but that's easy to say because it doesn't exist yet.

The first time I read that, I assumed he was referring to F3, but the article he links to is about a "Project Flair", which I hadn't heard of and could be something different. Still, open-source and Linux-compatible are two advantages this has over the proprietary Silverfish and Apollo, though of course the same could be said of Java itself.

So what do you think? Is HTML really doomed as a client-side technology, and is the race to provide a new rich-client technology really going to produce a winner? What about the users? Why do they need this stuff, and what's going to get them to download it (those who even use compatible devices -- sorry all you phone, game console, set-top box, and non-Mac/Win users)?


In Java Today, the JCP has announced nominees for its 5th Annual Awards. This years award adds a new category, JCP Participant of the Year, for which the nominees are Wayne Carr, Jean-Marie Dautelle and Doug Lea. Nominees for JCP Member of the Year are the Apache Software Foundation, Nokia and Orange France. Nominees have also been announced for Most Innovative JSR for SE/EE and ME, and Most Outstanding Spec Lead for SE/EE and ME. Winners will be announced at the JCP JavaOne event on May 9.

Next Monday, the day before JavaOne's official opening, Sun is sponsoring CommunityOne, a new event that expands on NetBeans Day by adding tracks for GlassFish, OpenJDK and Mobile & Embedded, and more. Tim O'Reilly will deliver an opening keynote address, and the Java Posse will do their podcast as the lunch-time entertainment. The day closes out with a beer-and-conversation community reception. The event is free, but space is limited, so you should register in advance.

An intriguing new article by Dan Pritchett takes on The Challenges of Latency: "Latency is a critical part of every system architecture. Yet making latency tolerance a first order constraint in the architecture is not that common. The result is systems that become heavily influenced by the distance between deployments. Why is that a problem?"


In today's Weblogs. Alexey Popov looks at Interactive Tests for Java ME This article describes types of interactive tests that are being developed for Java Technology Compatibility Kits, testing of what functionality requires user interaction. What Java ME limitations cause problems for development of tests, that require user interaction and how these limitations can be worked out.

Joshua Marinacci reports that Beans binding rocks! "I was working on one of our NetBeans demos for Monday's Matisse session and it occurred to me. I was actually having fun putting together a little program!"

Airlan San Juan says I'm Mobile and Blu at JavaOne: "Contrary to what serverside jockeys would have you perceive, or what Swing and SWT proponents would like to believe, the action at JavaOne is most furious in those fields that value the small and simple."

In today's Forums, David Clunie asks Can Sun be taken seriously for imaging, given the lack of 64 bit support ? "All we ever get is "64-bit support is deferred to a future release". Looking at the current JDK7 b11 build, things do not look any more promising there (no javaws in bin, for example). I am reminded of this because I wanted to build an application for 10-bit graphic cards that only have Windows drivers, that can usefully take advantage of huge amounts of RAM, ideally would be web deployable, needs JIIO codecs that are only available natively, and which I was going to write in Java, but guess what, I can't (and having realized this at 3am, am somewhat disgruntled)!"

kirillcool explains why it's a bad idea to delete forum messages, in Re: please delete this Thread! "Why did you delete the contents of your original question? The question has been answered and could have been archived for future reference (when somebody else has the same problem you had)."

florianbruckner explains the weird history of CORBA in Java, in Re: Major Application client frustrations. "It is hard to understand that there are two implementations of CORBA, one being in the Java Standard Edition and another, from what I understand completely separated one as part of the client container. Nevertheless, this has already been answered on various mailing lists and is for (again, my understanding, I may be wrong) historical reasons."


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Are Silverlight and Apollo really the future of the web?
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