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Property Syntax for Java? A Constructive Alternative
Posted by hansmuller on January 10, 2007 at 05:57 AM | Comments (29)
Having written, by conservative estimates, about a jillion Java
Beans classes over the years, I have to say that I'm amazed that
we'd seriously consider changing the Java language to trivialize
this kind of Java Bean property. It certainly is a property per
the spec, a read/write property at that, but - as a Swing
developer - it's the kind of property I almost never write. And
if repetitive boilerplate is what we're hunting with this
language change, then we're shooting at rabbits while a herd of
buffalo thunders by. The mighty buffalo of the Java Beans
boilerplate animal kingdom are bound properties. They're the
kind of properties we write so that our beans can be
automatically and dynamically synchronized with a GUI or with
each other. As a desktop developer, I almost always write bound
properties.
To write a bound property properly you've got to ensure that
your class defines or inherits support for a
PropertyChangeListener. That's about 20 lines of code just to
get started:
class FooBean {
private final java.beans.PropertyChangeSupport pcs;
public FooBean () {
pcs = new PropertyChangeSupport(this);
}
public void addPropertyChangeListener(PropertyChangeListener listener) {
pcs.addPropertyChangeListener(listener);
}
public void removePropertyChangeListener(PropertyChangeListener listener) {
pcs.removePropertyChangeListener(listener);
}
public PropertyChangeListener[] getPropertyChangeListeners() {
return pcs.getPropertyChangeListeners();
}
protected void firePropertyChange(String propertyName, Object oldValue, Object newValue) {
pcs.firePropertyChange(propertyName, oldValue, newValue);
}
}
And then there's the definition of each read/write property
which should: check the validity of new values in its
set method as well as calling firePropertyChange to notify
PropertyChangeListeners, and defensively copy the return value
(if necessary) in its get method. I suppose one could
concoct syntax that would simplify all of this, at least a
little, as well as allowing for read-only/write-only variants.
But that's not the proposal I wanted to make here.
If you consider the property keyword proposal in light of Java's
origins in the C language, then it's pretty clear what the
proposal's proponents are really after: structs. It's not
about defining properties, it's about simplifying defining a
Java class that's comparable to a struct in the C language. So
perhaps the proposal should really focus on allowing one to
write classes, not properties. Where this:
struct FooBean { Foo foo; }
Would by equivalant to this (as before):
class FooBean {
private Foo foo;
public Foo getFoo() { return foo; }
public void setFoo(Foo foo) { this.foo = foo; }
}
If you admit that the focus of the property proposal is really
adding support for defining structs in Java, then using "->" to
refer to struct properties feels like coming home again.
struct Point { int x, y; }
Point p = new Point();
p->x = p->y = 0; // oh joy
I'm not a language design expert however I would think that I
would be among the target developers for Java language feature
designed to support properties. In my humble (ha) opinion, the
current proposal serves the needs of Java Beans developers
poorly by targeting a special case that doesn't warrant language
support. Although I would welcome a proposal that also simplified
defining bound properties, I would guess that it would be hard
to invent syntax that would handle the general case without
being obscure. If there is a consituency for the current
proposal, I say: give them structs instead.
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Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first) | Post Comment
-
Hans, I think you're right on here. For whatever it's worth.
Posted by: ljnelson on January 10, 2007 at 06:38 AM
-
I don't know if this is right or not but Id probably find it more useful than adding a "property" keyword to generate accessors and getters. Im in the IDE camp at this point that the tool should be able to generate these things for you.
struct though, how is this different than:
class x{
Object a
Object b
}
what does this thing buy me?
leouser
Posted by: leouser on January 10, 2007 at 06:46 AM
-
Hum?
class Point {
public int x,y;
}
What am I missing here?
Posted by: mernst on January 10, 2007 at 06:52 AM
-
[response to mernst, leouser] The difference between just
defining fields and the struct proposal is that a struct field
implicitly defines a pair of get/set methods and a private field,
just like the property keyword would. That means beans tools
(like the introspector) would recognize the properties, you
could call the get/set methods (of course), you could call them
using the new "->" syntax, and you could override (the non-final
ones) in subclasses.
Posted by: hansmuller on January 10, 2007 at 07:04 AM
-
Structs are absolutely not about syntax sugering around setter/getter methods. Structs are about value objects, i.e. objects held on the stack rather than on the heap. In oldfashioned C this was implicitely the case (unless you reserved space on the heap and put the struct there manually). C# supports value-objects (structs) and also properties, they are two different concepts.
The property proposal also is not only about syntax sugering around setter/getter methods. There is much more to properties, than this.
Posted by: fatihc on January 10, 2007 at 07:36 AM
-
[response to fatihc] Of course there's much more
to properties than a trivial set/get method covering a private
field, that was my point. However there's little more to the
curent property proposal than that.
Posted by: hansmuller on January 10, 2007 at 08:07 AM
-
Which is the "current property proposal"? Is it Rémi's proposal you mean?
Cheers,
Mikael Grev
Posted by: mikaelgrev on January 10, 2007 at 09:05 AM
-
It doesn't seem that Tooling support is absent from this construct:
class x{
public int a
public int b
}
The Introspector may not be able to work with it(can't it?) but I don't see why a Field instance couldn't be used to set or get its fields. So, as a value add proposition for better tooling support, it doesn't go far enough.
leouser
Posted by: leouser on January 10, 2007 at 09:41 AM
-
Interesting.
I'd love it if there were a way to zap those 20 lines of boilerplate it takes to define a bound property !
Posted by: dannyc on January 10, 2007 at 09:52 AM
-
Danny,
If the property change support boiler plate should be auto-generated (and I'm not saying it should) then the whole Property thing should be generated in the same way (to stay in one type of solution is important here) and if so with an annotation on the class/property. IMO.
Cheers,
Mikael Grev
Posted by: mikaelgrev on January 10, 2007 at 10:08 AM
-
I think if it went in, I'd prefer an annotation to a keyword. With an annotation you'd get some flexibility in what was output. Couldn't this type of thing be done today with "apt"(I haven't used this yet)?
leouser
Posted by: leouser on January 10, 2007 at 10:22 AM
-
[response to mikaelgrev] I'm not sure where the definitive
version of this proposal can be found. I based my reaction on Danny
Coward's
Java 7 Overview presentation (slide 27), which appeared in his blog.
The presentation PDF is here:
http://blogs.sun.com/dannycoward/resource/Java7Overview_Prague_JUG.pdf
Posted by: hansmuller on January 10, 2007 at 10:35 AM
-
yup, that mentions the "property" keyword in it. The arrow operator is even more dubious to me:
a.getFoo();
a.->foo;
I save 3 characters in this/any case. But maybe it is just easier to express setting things:
a.->foo = b.->foo;
vs.
a.setFoo(b.getFoo());
hrmm...
leouser
Posted by: leouser on January 10, 2007 at 10:57 AM
-
aside from the operator, if we do add property types, there could be opportunity to automatically handle null chains:employee.department.company = null;
// doesn't throw an NPE
String compName = employee.department.company.name;
Posted by: jhook on January 10, 2007 at 11:34 AM
-
There are a lot of us that are looking for language support for bound properties. See this blog for a start down that path:
http://jroller.com/page/scolebourne?entry=java_7_property_objects
Posted by: coxcu on January 10, 2007 at 12:57 PM
-
This is why I dont think a property syntax for Java can work. It could only ever please the server side guys. They just need trivial get/set properties for entities and JSF backing beans etc. But on the cilent, properties are so much more complex. As you mention, there's firing of PropertyChangeListeners. Also you only want to fire this event if the new value is different, you need to validate the new value, and you might need to do other stuff, like revalidate and repaint, but againt only if the new value is different. yeah its alot of boilerplate, but i dont see how you could have all this work done automatically, its just too complex.
Personally, this boiler plate doesnt bother me. Because atleast its a common, well defined practice, so its very easy to do. The only benifit a property syntax would have is save us is some typing, which just isnt going to help make the software any better, or even get it written any faster. It seems the server-side people are the only ones thes language changes can please, but unfortunately they are the majority. But I dont think we should be changing the language to suit one subset of problems
Posted by: benloud on January 10, 2007 at 02:30 PM
-
If you would need to migrate a struct back into a class you'd have to rewrite all accessors of it, changing from "->" back to "." notation.
Posted by: jsando on January 11, 2007 at 05:57 AM
-
1) I am sorry to say, but the "struct" idea looks like a non-starter to me. It doesn't solve the Swing programmers' problem of bound properties (unless I am missing something in your suggestion), and it doesn't solve the server-side programmers' problem either. It is very common to start out with a field/trivial getter/trivial setter and evolve it later. A typical change would be to drop the field and make the getter/setter do something else, without changing the contract. How would the struct syntax allow for that?
2) I am embarrassed to admit that I don't write many bound properties when I do Swing coding. I know I should, but I am too lazy to cut and paste the boilerplate unless I really have to. So I don't have a lot of experience here. Are you saying that the boilerplate cannot be mechanized? I looked at the source for javax.swing.AbstractButton, and it seemed a bit ad-hoc.
Posted by: cayhorstmann on January 11, 2007 at 08:03 AM
-
Hans, my answer is here :
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/forax/archive/2007/01/property_and_in.html
about struct, is there a C++-syntax revival these days,
perhaps just declare a class with the keyword bean should be
sufficient
public bean class FooBean {
}
I don't see how to declare fields that are not properties
with your syntax.
@coxcu, i agree with you.
Posted by: forax on January 11, 2007 at 08:21 AM
-
[response to jsando] If the "->" notation was simply shorthand
for calling get/set methods, then I don't think there would be any
need to limit its use to structs. For example:
foo->bar = baz;
// same as
foo.setBar(baz);
However: in C the expression p->y = 0 has a value but of
course the Java property version, p.setY(0), doesn't.
I'm not sure if that leads to an insurmountable problem for
translation or not. I assume the following is a correct translation:
p->x = p->y = 0;
// same as
p.setY(0); p.setX(p.getY());
Posted by: hansmuller on January 11, 2007 at 08:41 AM
-
[response to cayhorstmann] Your response has numbered parts, so
here's a followup by the numbers: 1) The struct proposal was not
intended to solve the Swing developer's problem, i.e. writing bound
properties requires one to indulge in boilerplate. There's no reason
why one couldn't evolve a struct class, e.g.
// version 0
public struct Point { int x, y; }
// version 1
public struct Point {
private int z = 0;
int y;
public int getX() { return getZ(); }
public void setX(int x) { setZ(x); }
}
2) I'm sure one could automate the generation of the boilerplate
required for bound properties. To do so in a way that that was
sufficiently general, that allowed one to customize the validation
code (for the set method), and the code that responds to changes, and
the code that defensively copies returns values, could easily become
more difficult to read than the something that was coded by hand.
Posted by: hansmuller on January 11, 2007 at 09:32 AM
-
[response to forax] I looked at your proposal provided a feeble
comment. I think that if we were going to support defining aspects in
Java, we'd want to do so in general, not just for wrapping get/set
property methods. As to dealing with the PropertyChangeListener
list management boilerplate, the problem can be mitigated somewhat
by defining a base class that contains the boilerplate. I believe
Richard Bair has proposed adding such a class, AbstractBean, to the
java.beans package. I've done as much in code I've written.
Posted by: hansmuller on January 11, 2007 at 02:33 PM
-
[start-rant] I'm sick to death of people complaining about how important it is to alter language features for the sake of typing. Yes. There are people for whom typing is more of a chore than others. But it smells too much of political correctness gone amuk. If a change to the syntax of a language does not materially impact a developer's ability to write solid *readable* code, then leave it alone. For all those out there who want to drag typing into any language-changing discussion, get over it. Typing is not evil. 100% of the time when I've seen compromises made for the sake of typing, what's left is unreadable, unmaintainable code.
Posted by: jskress on January 15, 2007 at 08:08 AM
-
Certainly we write always same thinks again and again. And much more on swing. I have the problem with observer, observable pattern like here, or with tree when DefaultMutableTreeNode have to decorate model's object that presents a tree pattern.
When the enum class where added to Java 5.0 we gain a semantic consideration on modeling (good). But an enum can't extends anything else, so it's loose with flexibility. It's just a trick to avoid to write a lot of code for an enum pattern. We gain with abstraction but need more knowledge and experience to understand the code of a senior when you are a novice.
I would prefer to keep symplicity of java langage, with it's great structural power (encapsulation); otherwise let's go in a great work on design patterns with here observer-observable. And what about interpretor, iterator, strategy... a lot of work can be done (introspection helping).
I follow your work from some times, Hans but may be, with Aspect and/or introspection you can get better.
Posted by: alec6 on January 16, 2007 at 02:28 AM
-
just looking at this code:
foo->bar
has me breaking out in a cold sweat. One beautiful thing about Java is that you can 'read it' and most of the time it is not ambiguous, and hopefully not too many ways of achieving your goals. Otherwise the language becomes bloated and reading Java becomes like reading JavaScript or PERL (no offense).
If you cant determine program correctness through code inspection then your program is legacy out of the gatepost.
To introduce language changes to reduce typing is a crime against coffee - I say get a real IDE like Eclipse.
So I say 'NO' to this change.
Posted by: aronsmith on January 16, 2007 at 02:04 PM
-
[response to aronsmith]
My struct proposal was mostly tongue-in-cheek. The fact that it
happen to dovetail with the "->" syntax idea that's been floating
around lately was just a happy coincidence. The point of my blog was that
the original property keyword proposal doesn't streamline the
boilerplate I put up with when writing properties. It seems to be
aimed at the relatively uninteresting problem of defining classes that
are little more than glorified C structs.
Also: the next time you break out in a cold sweat, remember James Brown.
May he rest in peace.
Posted by: hansmuller on January 16, 2007 at 05:02 PM
-
I agree with the annotation solution. Flexible, java like and powerful.
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