Sivasubramanian Muthusamy's Blog

Java embedded Solaris.

In my previous post I asked an uneducated abstract question "Would there be greater harmony between the desktop interface and the application programs if Java Desktop happens to be the desktop interface in a Sun Solaris machine? Because there is an "already-java" environment in the machine (machine in layman's terms)?

The summary of the responses is that Java Desktop is not rich in Java code and so it doesn't make sense.

I am asking a little more educated question (just a little more) here:

Java programs are compiled for the Java Virtual Machine into Java byte code first. For the Java bytecode to work, a Windows version of Java Interpreter has to installed in Windows, a Linux version of Java Interpreter has to be installed in Linux...

Q:

Is the same sequence followed for Sun Solaris ?

If yes, then I would wonder why. (If you are not aware or forgotten, Sun owns Java. Sun owns Solaris.)

There may be Java variations such as IBM's, but Java as it is is Sun's own. Why wouldn't Sun take the Java Interpreter to the core of Solaris which is also its own? I am striking a difference between installing a Java Interpreter on an O/S from integrating an interpreter like instruction mechanism into the very core of the Operating System.

It is like making it unnecessary for Solaris to have a Java interpreter. (Would you need a translator by your side to translate English into English?) It is like weaving the Java execution capability right into the very core of the kernel of Solaris Operating System. That would result in a significant difference between the way Solaris runs Java from the way another Operating System runs Java.

I know that technically it can be done. But I don't know if it is already done.

In this scenario, would Sun Solaris "speak" Java like its mother tongue, as compared with other operating systems???

Comments

• I would personally think that as a very bad idea, to couple the OS kernel to a interpreter sends shivers down my spine because now your directly tying your kernel to something that is directly running user provided code and by doing so your opening yourself up to a whole slew of possible problems ranging from security (executing java directly in the kernel for example), being tied directly to a version of java with the only way to upgrade being through a kernel upgrade (which can then relate back to the security issue if one exists), and others.

  The entire idea of abstracting out the execution of Java from the OS layer is part of the safety of it. It comes at a cost, but in general that cost is something most folks are willing to pay for give the added security.

  And this embedded idea probably would add a ton of work for Sun to even get it into the kernel layer and then that would probably add more maintenance difficulty then wanted, especially once you start mucking with the kernel to integrate something like this.

  Just my 2cents.

  
  

  Posted by: olsonje on April 10, 2007 at 11:55 AM

• Dear olsonje,

  The idea is to integrate or weave the interpreter into the Operating System. Just the same way O/S designers have broken apart the O/S components into kernel and non-kernel components, is there a way of breaking apart the Interpreter (or an equivalent, Solaris Special Interpreting Mechanism) into kernel and non-kernel components? This is from the security perspective in total agreement with your concerns

  If the interpreter can't be taken to the kernel, is there any other way of weaving Java Interpretation capability into the O/S so as to result in an even smoother exchange between Solaris and Java?

  Posted by: isolatednetworks on April 10, 2007 at 12:49 PM

• I don't understand what problem you are trying to solve.

  Is it performance? How you launch Java applications?

  Embedding a VM in the kernel seems like a bad idea, and I don't know what you are trying to solve with that. Perhaps you should start by explaining that in more detail.

  What do you mean by a "smoother exchange between Solaris and Java"?

  Posted by: augusto on April 11, 2007 at 01:29 AM

• I don't understand what your argument for a "smoother exchange between Solaris and Java" is. I have to agree with Augusto in that it’s hard to see the problem your trying to solve at all. If it is speed, well, i would argue that by embedding it into the kernel you probably aren't going to get much of a speed increase because it would still be interpreted and, yet again, if you wanted to upgrade the version of java supported, it would be a lot of work and could potentially affect the stability of the system by changing the kernel.

  As for the other possibility of what you mean, easier execution (or launching...) of Java programs, it seems to me that the problem really isn't what level on the OS it's being run at but more then likely how the OS is setup, or java's ability to be treated as an executable language in general. Are you meaning to somehow flag a java class file to be treated as an executable program in that you could just run the program like you would a binary executable? (A simple "./MyApp" versus typing out the whole line of " java ...blahblah... MyApp")

  I guess it’s really confusing what you’re trying to solve, could you explain it a bit more?

  Posted by: olsonje on April 11, 2007 at 06:20 AM

• Dear Augusto,

  Thank you for your comment first of all.

  I am not trying to solve a problem, but simply throwing a question to ask if Solaris can have a native Java environment. Other operating systems "enable" java. Solaris, by the strength of its affinity to Java can do better than to simply "enable" Java.

  The idea is to examine if Solaris can be fine tuned for enhanced performance of Java Bytecode. The idea is to get Java "streaming" in Solaris.

  There is no "problem" to be solved, and there is nothing wrong with the existing sequence. Having said that, I don't believe that Java has reached the limits of its perfection, in terms of performance.

  I am simply wondering if there is a way of getting Java streaming faster and richer in Solaris as Java has privileges to open any door within Solaris, figuratively speaking.

  You are puzzled because you gave importance to the specifics such as "right into the core of the kernel". I am not specific about that. It is for the Operating System architects to figure out a way of incorporating an enhanced receptiveness for Java, in whatever place appropriate, kernel or somewhere a little outside.

  And it may not even be the Java Interpreter in its present form. It could be something totally original, something higher than an interpreter which would make Java feel at home in a machine that runs Solaris.

  On olsonje's second comment, I have no clue as to how a java class file can be flagged, I haven't typed anything other than reboot in command prompt.

  I am a total outsider, an outsider to Java, an outsider to Solaris, an outsider to Sun and an outsider to Technology.

  Someone who is inside gets so used to the status quo and the existing order that sometimes the insider's perspective excludes certain areas. What I see from outside is bound to be different from what anyone can see from inside. Certain basic concepts occur to me, most of which are probably wrong. I am blogging about them all, fully aware of my technical inadequacies, seeking clarity from technical experts who are admittedly way ahead of me in knowledge and exposure.

  Thank you.

  Posted by: isolatednetworks on April 11, 2007 at 04:28 PM

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License.