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More on Leopard's Java 1.5: The Release Notes Michael Urban Should Have Read
Posted by javaben on October 31, 2007 at 04:24 AM | Comments (68)
I recently blogged about the recent Mac whining from the Java community. Subsequently, I browsed through OS X 10.5 Leopard's Java release notes. Wow!
I think most people have by now realized that Michael Urban's straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back example of how Apple has regressed Java 5 is actually a step forward (i.e., the Aqua look-and-feel uses the *right* icon in message boxes now), but it gets much better.
Some of my favorites include:
- "It is now possible to create a circular indeterminate progress indicator from a JProgressBar in Swing. Setting the "JProgressBar.style" client property to "circular" will create a small round indicator when the progress bar has been setIndeterminate(true). Please see tech note TN2196 "New Control Styles available within J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X 10.5" for more information."
- "Horizontal scroll events are now delivered to JScrollPanes as Shift+ScrollWheel events, since there is no horizontal scrolling API in Java. Horizontal scrolling mouse events will now move the content view horizontally, along with Shift key modifier events."
- "There has been no way to specify smaller versions of the default Mac OS X Aqua controls. Many JComponents now change their default size, appearance, and font when the "JComponent.sizeVariant" client property is set to "small" or "mini". Please see the tech note "New Control Styles available within J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X 10.5" for more information."
- "JTextFields can now be converted into search files using the "TextField.variant" client property set to "search". Please see the tech note "New Control Styles available within J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X 10.5" for more information and additional options to configure JTextField based search fields."
- Apple introduced a 64-bit JVM with Leopard along-side the 32-bit JVM.
And, as anyone who has spent any time playing with the JRE will have noticed, the release notes omit many smaller features related to polish in their ground-up rewrite of the Aqua look-and-feel.
There will always be the whiners about Java 1.next; Apple is Apple. As the snake says in the proverbial parable, "you knew what [Apple] was when you [bought your MacBook Pro]." Whine about this to someone who cares.
But those who complain that Apple has lessened their support for Java at a time when Apple has done more to make Java a first-class peer of Cocoa and other dev environments--you could not be more misinformed.
UPDATE: I posted follow-up comments on the new rendering pipeline in a new blog entry.
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Comments
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I was quite impressed with the work gone in to the Aqua L&F for Leopard, and for one, am happy they put resources into that and the 64-bit VM rather than producing a bad-looking java 6 vm.
I can wait for for Java 6 on the Mac. If a client needs it, then I can use something else.
End users of Java won't care what version of Java it is, only that it works well and looks good. For Windows, that seems to mean you need Java 6, for OS X, not.
Posted by: goron on October 31, 2007 at 04:53 AM
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Apple: 'Hey Java developers, stay tuned, we have not forgotten you. Java 6 will be coming'.
That is the only thing that Apple would've needed to say and 70% of all flack would be avoided.
Posted by: mikaelgrev on October 31, 2007 at 06:46 AM
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"The Release Notes Michael Urban Should Have Read"
Unless Michael has got on his Leopard a Time Machine that travels in future, he couldn't have read the Release Notes when he posted his blog, since they haven't been published yet. :-)
For the rest, Mikael said it all. And when I bought my Apple I knew that they were committed in giving us the best platform for Java. Improving Java 5 is only part of the game.
Posted by: fabriziogiudici on October 31, 2007 at 07:44 AM
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... they haDn't been published yet... (I was pretty sure to get at least one verb wrong).
Posted by: fabriziogiudici on October 31, 2007 at 07:45 AM
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Another interesting one is in the AWT section of the release notes:
Mac OS X Leopard offers a new framework called JavaFrameEmbedding.framework that provides view-level support for embedding Java frames in a window. See the headers in that framework or the sample code for JavaFrameEmbedding for more information.
Posted by: willismorse on October 31, 2007 at 07:52 AM
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fabriziogiudici: The release notes were out one business day after Leopard shipped, maybe sooner. That ain't bad. My point is that Michael's behaving like a teenager with his ranting. I understand the emotion behind wanting to get the latest OS on your laptop, but professionals should probably evaluate an OS for longer than a weekend before announcing to the world that they are dropping the platform partially because they've misunderstood the Aqua L&F guidelines.
RE: Apple's "commitment." It's been a decade since Jobs' appearance at JavaOne. Things change, get over it. If you were plugged in over the past five years or more, you'd know the status quo, which hasn't changed it at least that long.
mikaelgrev: Hence, the snake parable. Apple's behavior in this area has been incredibly consistent ever since Jobs took the helm. It is what it is. My point to the whiners is: tell someone who cares.
Posted by: javaben on October 31, 2007 at 07:55 AM
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Fine, perhaps Java5 is not that bad and Java6 is coming - but what you said about the transition to the Sun rendering pipeline being an improvement, that was pure spin that I'd only parse as radical Mac zealotry. There is NO justification for this (except Apple having no resources / time / priority to update the accelerated pipeline for the new OS). It's the opposite direction that everybody else is moving; see for example Java 6 UpdateN, which will move to the new D3D-accelerated pipeline by default on Windows.
The Java platform must keep up with the LAF improvements of the latest OSs, like Vista and OSX, which are severely raising the bar in sfx (remarkably with WPF, Quartz, Beryl etc) so the Java toolkits (AWT/Swing/J2D) can't reasonably compete without full acceleration.
And also, Java must support the development of "filthy rich" clients, not that I like this trend, but many users do so developers should be able to crank out sophisticated J2D effects that don't bring Java's performance to its knees.
These requirements are MUCH more important than "pixel-by-pixel portability" (and for this, there's always the option of the portable Java LAF).
Posted by: opinali on October 31, 2007 at 08:05 AM
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< Apple's behavior in this area has been incredibly consistent ever since Jobs took the helm.
Even more reason to complain then...
< My point to the whiners is: tell someone who cares.
Eh, ok...
Posted by: mikaelgrev on October 31, 2007 at 09:26 AM
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opinali: Zealotry? The last time developers asked my opinion on switching from Windows to the Mac, I told them to stick to Windows. I was more productive developing Java on Windows XP than I am on OS X. I use OS X because I enjoy it so much more than Windows. Apple fan-boy I am not. I'm just deeply embarrassed by the recent comments from some in the Java community, as I know some of how hard Apple has been working on their Java support, and I resent those claiming otherwise.
For more discussion on the new rendering pipeline, see my latest blog entry: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/javaben/archive/2007/10/java_on_leopard.html
Posted by: javaben on October 31, 2007 at 10:03 AM
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mikaelgrev: Did you read the snake parable I linked to? Don't use a Mac if you don't like how Apple works. That is the loudest way to complain to those who can change the status quo.
The thing I don't get are those that whine on about "Oh, they misled me! They had this big commitment to Java!" 1997, I'd be crying with you. 2007? Come on. The world changes in 10 years.
Posted by: javaben on October 31, 2007 at 10:05 AM
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Ben, why is it that you are "deeply embarrassed by the recent comments from some in the Java community" and call them "whiners" yet can't spare a word of criticism of Apple's complete lack of communication regarding Java 6? To me, a degree of outrage is justified. It's no wonder you are coming off as a zealot.
Ray Tucson said it perfectly in a reply to your previous post: "If Apple were a developer on my team, they'd be fired."
I was waiting for Leopard to be released before buying my first mac notebook. But now I know this isn't a company I want as a member of my team. Thank you, Apple, for making my decision easier. In eight days, Fedora 8 will be released with their Open JDK implemention of Java 7. Their development process and roadmap is transparent. I'll also be evaluating Open Solaris in the future.
Allen Halsey
Posted by: ahalsey on October 31, 2007 at 01:24 PM
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Allen: Best of luck on those platforms.
Posted by: javaben on October 31, 2007 at 02:14 PM
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Ben: Thanks. Best of luck having your computing infrastructure controlled by a company that leaves its users in the dark.
Posted by: ahalsey on October 31, 2007 at 06:15 PM
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As others have pointed out, and I feel I need to point out as well. Those release notes were not available yet when I wrote that article. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was my article (which was very widely circulated) that caused Apple to to finally get their ass into gear and actually publish the release notes. Coincidence that they published the release notes exactly the day after I took them to task for not communicating any information to their customers? I think not.
Posted by: mikeurban on October 31, 2007 at 09:15 PM
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Ben;
Could you please explain to me why anybody should accept a company not communicating what their plans are?
I guess it's ok for some people to accept that's just how Apple works, but really, you think people should be accepting and happy about non-communication???
Posted by: augusto on October 31, 2007 at 09:27 PM
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Allen: I've been a happy OS X user for many years now. It's not perfect, but it's sure better than Windows XP and Vista. I hear Linux and Solaris are improving, but the productivity tax is still awfully high. As a consumer, I'm pretty excited about the apps that will be coming out with the new Cocoa frameworks released in 10.5.
From a professional perspective, I don't develop in Cocoa, I develop in Java, Ruby, Ajax, ActionScript, and other cross-platform technologies--so Apple doesn't control my destiny. Should I decide to switch off OS X, I have the comfort of knowing my MacBook Pro was just called the best Windows laptop by PC Magazine. Not much to complain about.
Mike: Maybe, but I doubt it. Leopard was officially released Friday after business hours. The release notes came out... Monday. It really doesn't surprise me that they didn't push them out over the weekend. Regardless, I wrote my originally rebuttal to your blog (and others) before I was aware of the release notes. I've commented on this issue becuase I know of some of the hard work the Apple Java team has put in the past few years, and knowing that this is one of their first opportunities to show it off, it really rubbed me the wrong way that a visible Java personality such as yourself mischaracterized the improvements they've made so sharply. And brother, I've been developing against a massive codebase in IDEA on Leopard for several days now and it has been working like a champ. Of course, the release notes which came out the *first business day* after Leopard shipped certainly didn't help your position.
augusto: I have no interest in defending Apple's PR policy. I would love them to be more open. I am bothered by two specific behaviors of some in the Java community; see my last comment at http://weblogs.java.net/blog/javaben/archive/2007/10/java_on_leopard.html. It's a bit like buying a sports car and then whining to all your friends about the gas mileage and announcing how you'll never buy a car like it again, the injustice, the inhumanity, etc. Yeah, that's all interesting, but, didn't you know before you bought the sports car that it wouldn't get good mileage?
Posted by: javaben on October 31, 2007 at 09:54 PM
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Ben;
Knowing Apple's lack of communication, and other factors, I've never believed it is a good Java dev platform.
http://sellmic.com/blog/2007/10/28/beware-of-rotten-apples/
I'm not sure your comparison is fair. People expected a Java 1.6 release, there's been a beta out there for a while, just no official word. Should they have known better? I did. However, it's not unreasonable for people to have expected 1.6 to be released at this point.
Even so, you have to be careful because your argument borders on the "the was asking for it" line of thought. It's just wrong that Apple has not been straightforward with regards to this topic. It's really as simple as that. Any justifications for this are really wasted attempts at poor apologetics. Which are by the way better left to sales and marketing people from Apple.
Posted by: augusto on October 31, 2007 at 11:02 PM
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Ben
I don't think I mis characterized anything. And don't get me wrong, I am NOT targetting the developers at Apple who work on the Java support. And it's not that I don't think the Java developers at Apple are trying. I believe they are sincere. It's the fact that higher level management doesn't think Java is important and would much rather attempt to lock developers into the Objective-C / Xcode platform. I'm sure the developers at Apple who work on Java support are probably have at least as much reason to be frustrated as I do. But of course, none of them can publically say if if they want to keep their job.
As far as IDEA, I would say I average two crashes a day right now when using it on Leopard. Where it becomes so unusable I have to restart it. The main problem, is this weird bug where suddenly it stops allowing me to change tabs. There is also the occasional long pauses.
I really don't agree with the sports car analogy at all. And I am not whining. I am hoping maybe eventually, someone at Apple will start to realize that this ridiculous culture of total secrecy and non-communication is causing them to lost customers. And maybe they will change it. I doubt they will, because I am not the first one to complain about it.
Anyway, the vast majority of Java developers have been very supportive of what I wrote. You are one of the few people who has not been. So I don't feel like there is really any reason for me to continue defending myself against your attacks. I don't have anything to prove. So this is the last comment I am going to make on any of these blog posts you have made.
Posted by: mikeurban on November 01, 2007 at 07:11 AM
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Mike: Sounds good. I think we've exhausted points on all sides. Ultimately, if its not beneficial for developers to create Mac-compatible software, they won't, and the platform will die. Time will tell.
You should check out Glenn's comment at http://weblogs.java.net/blog/javaben/archive/2007/10/java_on_leopard.html. It turns out you were wrong about IBM's 1.6 JRE being available.
Posted by: javaben on November 01, 2007 at 09:26 AM
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Yes. I was wrong about them having a release available. It's only a beta version
Posted by: mikeurban on November 01, 2007 at 09:48 AM
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>> Please see the tech note "New Control Styles available within J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X 10.5" for more information."
Where is this tech note. I have been searching for it and cannot find it.
Posted by: robyww on November 01, 2007 at 04:22 PM
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don't care. No Java 6 + 1 year late. That's all there is to it.
Posted by: imjames on November 02, 2007 at 12:47 AM
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Ben. You're wrong about it being released on Monday. Regardless of the date it says on the TN, the technote was made available at 1am GMT on the 31st October. That's the end of the second business day. There was no way Mike could have read those release notes.
Posted by: brendonm on November 08, 2007 at 04:00 AM
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Hi brendonm: So, if that's the case, substitute what I said about one business day with two business days. My point is, Mike should have done some homework before telling the world Apple has abandoned Java and that he's giving up the Mac platform.
If we're going to talk about timing, I received a JavaLobby email after I'd posted all three of these blog entries and Mike responded to them that contained his blog entry verbatim. So he sent his whine-gram out to a huge number of people after he knew it was inaccurate.
Posted by: javaben on November 08, 2007 at 07:29 AM
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wrt bugs in Leopard's jre, has anyone come across this one? Sound playback (using the Java Sound API) is heavily distorted on my mac. Seems to affect all Applets and Applications that I have tested. JRE 1.4 still works fine, as did JRE 1.5 on Mac OS 10.4.
It's a bit of a shocker for me (developing acoustic software on a Mac)... but also the first experience of Java on Macs not doing what I need it to do.
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Now with the continuous improvement of people's living standards, more and more digital products used in people's lives, such as MP3, MP4, MP5, PSP, but also with the price of its popular, and becoming increasingly cheaper, Here, friends can enjoy the most preferential prices, the cheapest discount, if the wholesale, we will have a greater discount, a lot of benefits to you, welcome you to buy.
Posted by: lilyet on June 18, 2008 at 01:41 AM
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