John D. Mitchell's Blog

"Java Desktop System"?

Well, Sun is releasing their so-called Java Desktop System this week. What, exactly, is the "Java Desktop System"? Plain and simple: it is Sun's Linux distribution focused on desktop users. Of course, Sun has too much invested in things like Solaris (which is losing market share since The Bust (and I'm not even going into the loss of mind share)) and Java for them to be clear in their marketing messages.

Okay, let's hear Sun's official story of the naming of the Java Desktop System:

Q. Why was the product name Sun Java Desktop System selected?

A. Java technology plays a very important role in the Java Desktop System - the Java Virtual Machine is integrated, the Mozilla browser is Java-aware, Java is the preferred development environment, etc. To reinforce this, we have selected the name Sun Java Desktop System.

Yeah, sure, uh-huh, whatever. Did you notice how little actual Java there is in the "Java Desktop System"? Yep, in amongst all of those applications that users are going to actually care about such as the GNOME desktop and the Star Office application suite, Sun installs the JDK and JavaWebStart.

Now, since flogging the Solaris brand against Linux is about as succesful as Hollywood's Solaris movie was at making money, Sun is betting the farm in their ability to market "Java Everywhere". So, Sun is going to flog "Java" (to death?) by slapping "Java" on more or less everything that they are trying to sell. Gee, as if the term "Java" isn't already way too overloaded (is it a language or a platform or a mindset or a community or one product or 8,000 products or...). Let's face it, Sun has pretty much always sucked at marketing and I don't see this as any sign of improvement.

Can this flogging of "Java" possibly be a good thing? Can Sun carve out a niche using a "Red Hat Enterprise Linux but we sell hardware too" approach?

Comments

• Javascript
  Ugh - the number of times I've had to explain how Java != Javascript...

  Posted by: nevster on December 01, 2003 at 05:51 PM

• Re: Java Desktop System
  I agree with you! Two additional points: doesn't Java mean "write once, run anywhere" ... wouldn't that imply that the "Java Desktop System" would run anywhere, not just on Linux? very confusing, to me anyway; And, if Sun isn't careful they will voilate (or at least dilute) their own copyright and trademark of Java.

  --Steve
  

  Posted by: sgsst on December 02, 2003 at 04:01 AM

• Confusion all around
  I agree this is a poor move. Even whithin Sun itself it does not seem to be clear. Our department invited Sun (Canada) to give us their slant on Swing GUI development and instead we got a presentation of the Java Desktop which has nothing to do with what we wanted to know.
  When we explained that we had a disconnect we were told that they didn't know anything about this and that 'everything is moving to the browser now' because you don't want to run to every PC with an installation disk. At that point I was ready to leave the room since I would at least expect these people to be aware of Java Web Start and other smart client technology which in my opinion works quite nicely.
  To me this shows how muddy the message is and how hard it will be to sell this. The sad part is that the Linux/Gnome/StarOffice/Evoloution desktop and server solutions that they sell are very nice and priced right. They won't sell any however if they can't get the story straight.

  Posted by: jmelchio on December 02, 2003 at 06:44 AM

• Javascript
  Back in the boom days, I am my colleagues would be asked to review resumes and give technical interviews to potential Java hires. One of our weed-out criteria was resumes that stated "Java/JavaScript" as a skill, since the candidate seem to equate each with the other.

  Was this a fair criterium? Maybe, maybe not. But just to be sure, if I ever send out a resume, I make sure to put several terms between Java and JavaScript. (-:

  Posted by: jimothy on December 02, 2003 at 07:46 AM

• Overloaded Product Name Operators
  Actually, Java is about as overloaded as "Linux" which has already flogged itself to death .. is it a kernel, an operating system, a collection of GNU utilities, a collaboration methodology, a way of life, Linus' college project gone haywire? Ultimately it doesn't matter since it ends up being perception with the masses that wins out in the long run .. if we've learned anything from Microsoft it's gotta be in the mass appeal ..

  And what's up with the penguin mascot? Wasn't that an old dated beer commercial that made no sense (beware the penguin??!?) .. no wonder people don't quite get the penguin (plus the allusions to tuxedo in the corporate world are annoying) .. it's another self-defeating icon (think fat pudgy guys in cheesy tuxedo T-shirts) ranking right up there with the gnome foot (somebody kicked my screen!), the Openssh blowfish (personification of Theo de Raadt .. and yes i know it's an algorithm), the BSD daemon, the KDE gearhead, and the mozilla (is that godzilla or mothra?) .. marketing should be left to the marketing weasels imho - they all speak the same droning language ..

  Posted by: mamayo on December 02, 2003 at 11:18 AM

• Javascript
  Of course, what I meant was "I AND my colleagues," and to placate Mrs. Kirley, my 5th grade English teacher, what I really meant was "my colleagues and I".

  I suppose I have no right to judge anyone on language usage.

  Posted by: jimothy on December 02, 2003 at 11:24 AM

• Confusion all around
  Sorry for the bad experience - Sun has too many clueless sales and marketing drones these days (makes me wonder how they keep surviving the RIFs) .. I think to address your question you need the PS side of the house - they'll come in on pre-sales engagements if it looks promising - these are the people who do this sort of thing on a daily basis and don't just look at the latest and greatest glossy that has the same name as what their customer asked for ..

  Sun has never had a positive view of the GUI side, and it shows in Swing .. I've heard old-timers say "if you want a gui, buy a Mac" - and it appears that apple is actually doing some nice work with java and the swingset .. keep in mind that swing is just a basic framework that you can plug in your native nicer widget set (GTK or XP), it's designed to be lightweight so you can use your native utilities in your O/S - not like the SWT approach that appears to be steering you towards IBMs toolsets .. if you look at the screenshots on the JDS, it's pretty much the SuSE GTK implementation, and i think that's the direction they're heading with the desktop - swing should just be the gunpowder .. you make the gun (just don't shoot yourself in the foot with it)

  Posted by: mamayo on December 02, 2003 at 11:40 AM

• Javascript
  arrgh - the netscape deployment of a "Java" scripting language (harhar) because JSP was late in coming (and then ended up on the servlet end anyhow)

  personally i think the Java Desktop System =~ Starbucks Latte Drinks .. (I see no java in here, just a lot of milk and foam and syrup .. oh wait there is a dark substance somewhere buried in the depths)

  Posted by: mamayo on December 02, 2003 at 11:48 AM

• Have you seen Looking Glass?
  Comeon ... I understand it that there doesn't appear to be any real Java in JDS outside of the JRE (not counting jDisk, etc.), but have you been tracking the stuff that demonstrates that they might be serious about Java in the Java Desktop? What about Looking Glass (Java) or all of their applications that they are driving through the javadesktop.org? What about all of the upoming stuff that they are talking about that is written in Java? Why so bitter?

  Posted by: jimbo on December 29, 2003 at 11:02 AM

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