Graham Hamilton's Blog

Java SE and the Google Toolbar

Sun has announced an agreement with Google to distribute the Google toolbar along with consumer Java SE downloads from java.com. Here's what is happening and why.

The Background

We've been working for several years to increase adoption of the latest Java SE Runtime Environment (JRE) among home consumers on the internet. We've been pursuing two tactics. First, we've been working with the major PC hardware vendors to include the JRE on new PCs. That has been very successful - a majority of new PCs now ship with the JRE preinstalled, which is great. Second, we created the java.com site as a new consumer friendly site where consumers could easily download the JRE, at zero cost. That has also been wildly successful and we are getting a very high volume of consumer downloads (well over ten million a month).

That's been great progress, but of course we are eager to find even more ways of reinforcing Java technology on the desktop. At the same time, we want to be careful not to do anything that would be onerous or unpleasant or otherwise discourage consumers from using Java. And even more importantly, we want to be very sensitive to the needs of Java developers and ISVs and we want to avoid changes which might interfere with developers' ability to use or distribute Java.

In searching for possible opportunities, Sun got connected with the Google toolbar team, who were looking for ways to encourage adoption of the Google toolbar. Our goals seemed very compatible. Like Sun, Google was extremely concerned to avoid doing things that would mislead or annoy or disrupt consumers, which was very reassuring.

It probably also helped that many of us are avid users of google.com and that Google in turn does a lot of Java development and contributes to various JCP expert groups. (Did you know that Google is a JCP Executive Committee member?)

What We're Doing

Here's what we have announced and what we will be rolling out over the next few months.

We will be adding some options to the Windows JRE installation from java.com. These options will allow downloading and installation of the Google toolbar (and possibly other Google tools in future) as part of the Windows JRE installation. I want to emphasize that these will be options. If someone doesn't want these tools they can easily opt out and still download and install the JRE.

Our core principle here is to avoid forcing anything on anyone. So we will take care to make it clear to end users what is going on and we won't force the toolbar or other tools on people who don't want them. (Yes, I know that probably sounds kind of obvious, but we don't want any misunderstanding on that point!)

If someone wants to uninstall the Google tools they will be able to do that, while leaving the JRE installed (and vice versa). Again, this is about allowing reasonable end user choices, with no hidden "gotchas".

These changes are primarily focused on the consumer JRE downloads hosted from java.com (although they may also affect some related "online" JRE installation bundles on java.sun.com). The way that the "online" installers work is that a small initial installer is downloaded and it then downloads additional material depending on which options the end user selects. So, as with other optional material, the Google tools will only be downloaded if the end user actually selects them.

Note that we are not requiring developers or ISVs to redistribute the Google toolbar with their applications. In particular, the redistributable JRE bundles that developers can redistribute with their apps won't include the toolbar.

Similarly, enterprise system administrators can continue to get redistributable JRE bundles from java.sun.com for use in deployments within enterprises, without the toolbar.

We are also looking into the possibility that in the future we might offer Google toolbars during JRE auto-updates. If we do go down that route we will again be very careful to make sure that people can opt out and that there are no surprises or gotchas.

Conclusion

Hopefully this will be a good experience for everyone. Consumers will get an option to install useful search tools and Sun will get some extra help around Java development and deployment, especially as we head towards the new Java SE 6 "Mustang" release.

Finally, I'd like to offer Big Congratulations to Thorsten Laux, the Java SE Desktop Engineering Director for figuring all this out and for driving and closing the agreement. Thorsten is a key champion of desktop Java and he has been relentless in looking for opportunities to boost Java desktop adoption.

Comments

• 
  And even more importantly, we want to be very sensitive to the needs of Java developers and ISVs and we want to avoid changes which might interfere with developers' ability to use or distribute Java.

  
  Please, just fix more bugs and really listen to the trends. Some very important java developers and opinion leaders are kind of jumping ship in favor of ruby and alike. Why not put some steam behind groovy (AFAIK the project leaders are working on groovy on their spare time, for free) in order to cool them off?

  At least make google do something for java in this deal. Most of cool web 2.0 applications are developed outside java ( with ROR, PHP and even Perl).

  Google desktop has nothing to do with java. For crist sake, involve Romain Guy or/and Scott Violet or somebody else ( some googlers, eh) in this and help them develop a java google toobar, will you?

  Teach UI web design to java develpers of involve good designers to back up java powered java applications (how come best java sites are so ugly compared to best php, ror or perl sites?; learn something from backpack and others )

  Mr. McNealy is talking some strange language to me.

  Anyway I hope that from this deal will benefit both companies and mostly java technology.

  Regards,
  Horia Muntean

  P.S. I wonder if anybody from SUN or Google has read 'Beyond Java' ...

  Posted by: sevenm on October 04, 2005 at 02:47 PM

• Can you expand on "Sun will get some extra help around Java development and deployment, especially as we head towards the new Java SE 6 "Mustang" release." That seems far more interesting than bundling the Google toolbar.

  Posted by: scottschram on October 04, 2005 at 03:40 PM

• 
  If someone doesn't want these tools they can easily opt out and still download and install the JRE.

  Sounds like you're making it so that there will be separate downloads - one with the toolbar and one without.
  Is that correct?
  Graham.

  Posted by: grlea on October 04, 2005 at 09:07 PM

• You explained *what* is going on, but not *why*. So you bundle Google Toolbar with the JRE, but what does Sun get back from Google? Do we get to bundle a JRE install option with their toolbar installer?

  Posted by: cowwoc on October 05, 2005 at 06:55 AM

• Um, "opt out" is uncool. Very. If you distribute extra software at all, anything other than "opt in" will reduce your popularity.

  I can almost promise you will decrease downloads with this strategy. (Not to say they wouldn't increase for other reasons. Measuring things is complicated, eh?)

  Posted by: tjpalmer on October 05, 2005 at 09:03 AM

• Since Adobe forces to install Yahoo! toolbar with version 7 of Acrobat Reader, I'm sticking with version 6... Even if it's an option, I really don't like to be suggested to buy a vacuum cleaner when I enter a bakery just for bread. Don't they call this bundled sales, which is forbidden by law in some countries? Perhaps I'll keep Java 5 as my last version...

  Posted by: genepi on October 05, 2005 at 10:39 AM

• Graham,

  I fail to see how distributing the Google toolbar as part of the JRE will make more people install the JRE... Only people that already want the JRE will go to the Java site to get it. So, if anything, this move will increase the availability of the Google toolbar... Am I missing something?

  Gabriele

  Posted by: carcassi on October 05, 2005 at 02:02 PM

• I prefer opt-in.

  Posted by: jessewilson on October 05, 2005 at 02:26 PM

• Sorry, if you're forcing the Google toolbar on me from now on I'll just refrain from downloading and installing any new versions of Java from now on and advise customers to not install any versions I don't know to be clean.

  I consider Google toolbar (and many of their other services) to be mallicious and don't want to have it on my systems nor will I knowingly contribute to its further distribution.

  So unless an option for downloading a CLEAN version of Java is provided (and I mean one that doesn't have the Google toolbar even as an optional installation item) I for one will likely be jumping ship and looking at alternative technologies from now on.
  C++ or Python look interesting, or I may join a friend and ex-colleague and work in Delphi and C# for his customers.

  Posted by: jwenting on October 06, 2005 at 12:18 AM

• "You explained *what* is going on, but not *why*. So you bundle Google Toolbar with the JRE, but what does Sun get back from Google? Do we get to bundle a JRE install option with their toolbar installer? "

  The only thing Sun gets is an order for some server hardware.

  Posted by: jwenting on October 06, 2005 at 12:20 AM

• To test whether it was opt-in or opt-out (Graham, we'd appreciate answers for these important issues), I tried to download the latest from java.com. Not good. I'm using Firefox 1.0. Clicking on the XPI link (what consumer would know what XPI is?), firefox blocked it, which I didn't even notice at first (adobe doesn't have this problem). I then edited the option in the browser blocking "block", added java.com to the list of sites that can install software (you just lost most users), clicked again and the download failed with error code -260 (now you lost me). An additional error is "signing cannot be verified." Brittney Spears on Java.com was over two years ago! C'mon Sun, get it together. This has got to super-super-simple. I tried with IE and it detected that I had the latest JRE. On another machine it didn't even ask about the Google toolbar and didn't install it. Some announcement. :-(

  Also in the announcement:
  "[the companies will] explore opportunities to promote and enhance Sun technologies, like the Java Runtime Environment and the OpenOffice.org " It sounds like Sun may get some of the ad revenue from google hits via toolbars installed via Java. Maybe.

  Posted by: michaelbushe on October 07, 2005 at 07:53 AM

• Wow. I can't believe some of the comments here.

  Like willing going to C# cause the JRE downloaded asks if you want the Google Toolbar with it. How much baggage does the Creator of C# force on you?

  [sigh]

  Posted by: mnuttall on October 07, 2005 at 09:38 AM

• Most developers love Java because it is neutral and clean. Even though Sun built Java, the JCP drives it. Unlike C#, which is more of a product (Visual Studio), Java is appealing to folks like in the research industry for being just a programming environment and not a product. I believe, bundling the toolbar, will just create a dent in the Java's market image.

  Posted by: ravibhatia on October 07, 2005 at 10:39 AM

• Graham,

  There are many questions on this page, and some people who seem upset about the announcement, possibly because they have assumed things that aren't clear from what you've written. But there has been no response to tell them they are wrong.

  Can I kindly request that you respond to the comments and questions in order to "set the record straight". It's not very clear either what you're doing (and what you're not doing) or why.

  Thanks.

  Posted by: grlea on October 09, 2005 at 08:15 PM

• I doubt that is why most developers love Java. It is not the reason I used it.

  So you agree with me about C#? :) That sort of was my point. Why leave a community/platform/environment for a product just cause you gotta do an extra click?

  I do agree that doing this moves Java to what C# is like - but even with this, Java is far better, overall, than C#.

  Posted by: mnuttall on October 11, 2005 at 05:34 AM

• 
  I wanted to provide people with a brief update. The Google
  toolbar has now been enabled as part of the JRE download from
  java.com for people in English, German, Italian and Japanese
  locales (other locales will be added soon).
  

  Note that the Google toolbar is targeted at Internet Explorer.
  You will be offered the toolbar if you are on Windows, and if
  you are using Internet Explorer, and if you are using one of the
  currently supported languages, and if you don't yet have the
  Google toolbar installed. Otherwise that dialog will be skipped.
  

  The toolbar is offered as a checkbox option. It is initially
  checked, but you can uncheck it if you chose. And for people who don't
  even want that option, you can download the "offline install" JRE
  bundle. That bundle does not offer the toolbar option.

            
            
            
  - Graham

  Posted by: kgh on October 12, 2005 at 06:59 PM

• Okay,

  But why: What are the advantages for Java??
  I See only advantages for Google, and disadvantages for Java.

  If a user wants to download java, now it also gets Google Toolbar installed if the user just clicks OK OK OK (like many users).

  Is Java Bundled now to the Google Toolbar??? No?

  Well then i do not understand this dicision?

  Can you clarify this?

  Posted by: tjerk on October 19, 2005 at 10:51 AM

• Sorry to be little out off context.
  Do you feel "comfortable" to see this Ad (http://static.flickr.com/30/56028336_a7de841792.jpg)on a page(http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp) that has direct link from sun.com ?

  These Ads are going to be replaced(mixed with) by Google Toolbar Ads? If so I am seeing a great value addition here.

  Posted by: forsun on October 25, 2005 at 06:16 PM

• Graham,
  I have a couple questions for you about the announcement:

  I was wondering if anyone had considered reversing the deal, so that when you installed Google desktop you were given the choice of also installing the JRE? This would at least insure that the deal between Sun and Google was more reciprocal in nature.

  Are there any plans to create a WebStartable Google Desktop? This would have the advantage of being able to run on all of the platforms that Java runs on. If one combined that idea with a lightweight WebStartable Open Office (just needs to read & write Open Document files) and Konfabulator-like applets with support for all BSF scripting engines, it would make for a more compelling story. It would demonstrate that Java can play a pretty compelling role on the desktop, especially if it served as a showcase for Java desktop applications.

  
  Regards,

  Mark Fortner

  Posted by: phidias on November 16, 2005 at 12:08 PM

• I do not want google toolbar on my machines under any circumstances. please provide the link so that I can distribute it on my machines without the toolbar, because I don't want to have to disable java updates.

  Posted by: vajav on January 13, 2006 at 11:57 AM

• Okay, I finally made it through the register/login process just to tell you that I found this extremely annoying. As if the JRE didn't annoy me enough by popping up little balloons asking me to update all the time, when I updated this time I found that I had the Google toolbar a day later. I am uninstalling the JRE right now. What do I need it for anyway? Playing little games in my browser? Good bye.

  p.s. Quit knocking C#. It's not cool anymore.

  Posted by: lancefisher on April 14, 2007 at 06:40 PM

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