Andreas Schaefer's Blog

Foreign High-Tech Workers: a Scapegoat for a sagging Economy? I don't think So.

I wanted to start my weblog at Java.net a little bit differently but as a former H1-B visa holder Sue�s Spielman weblog with the title �Outsourcing in my company? I do not think so.� stroke a cord and I had to respond. The most replies turn around these sentences:

I am a true believe that the legislation currently being proposed to lower the H-1B and L-1B visa quotas will not go far enough. I think these visas should be abolished until all of the unemployed and laid-off IT workers and engineers who are US citizens are back on a payroll.

Even thought that these two sentence does not have to do much with the title or the rest of the weblog entry these sentences were (mis)understood by many commentators as a request to kick out the visa holders out of the country but it actually says the visas should be abolished. Nevertheless I think it is absurd to think that H1-B and L1-B visa holders are responsible for most of the unemployed IT workers and that a ban will only increase the desire for US companies to outsource their IT departments. Even thought we can all agree to disagree the next sentence:

The fact that a US company thinks that hiring a barely-English-speaking worker in India or the Philippines is going to solve their competitive problems is just absurd.

sounds more like said by a populist politician than an educated software engineer. What is absurd is the thought that all H1-B/L1-B visa workers are coming from India and the Philippines and that all of them do barely speak English. As example I am coming from Switzerland (no, not Sweden) and spoke publicly on many occasions.

As with the outsourcing the underlying problem is that (greedy) executives try to save money through shortsighted decisions and we all have to pay for it afterwards. In my opinion the only solution to prevent the visa holders from being extorted is to make them less dependable from their employers for a balanced competition between local and foreign employees and outsourcing can only be prevented by the customers putting quality and support over cheap products and services.

Comments

• I agree...
  I agree to the fact that banning or abolishing would in turn increase the desire to oursource IT to these countries, instead of helping generate IT jobs in US.
  I also agree on the idea that most of the workers coming from these countries barely speak English, this seems like a absurd thought.....

  Posted by: ravneetg on September 12, 2003 at 08:05 AM

• Let 'em in!
  If a foreign-born engineer can out compete you for a job, then work on your job skills.

  Posted by: rstinejr on September 12, 2003 at 09:21 AM

• I think that perhaps americans barely don't speak english [correctly]
  The workers coming from these countries sometimes speaks English better than americans, and even, are of of great worth to economy. Saying things like that foolish american people will always be hated by everybody around the world.

  Posted by: izaiaslisboa on September 12, 2003 at 09:22 AM

• Let 'em in!
  It's not a competition of skills; it's a competition of lowest bidder. If you don't believe that, you're giving far too much credit to hiring managers' ability to judge technical skills from an interval (and hey, that is a hard thing to do).

  Posted by: jimothy on September 12, 2003 at 10:44 AM

• Let 'em in!
  I meant to say, from an INTERVIEW, not from an interval. Pardon the mistake.

  Posted by: jimothy on September 12, 2003 at 11:01 AM

• Strong forces at work
  Sue got what she deserved. Intentionally or not, she came across like an angry nativist. Oh, well.

  The truth is that larger forces over time will prevail here. Even if Congress makes it harder to bring foreign workers in, the work will simply go overseas anyway. All developers making good salaries should be on notice to move up the value chain. I, myself have realized that in order to continue my career as a Java guy - will have to find more valuable stuff to do for clients. The interesting question is, what is the value of different kinds of Java development? What is the *hard* stuff that we rich American java nerds should be doing? That is what we should be focusing on.

  Posted by: edfactor on September 12, 2003 at 01:33 PM

• I think that perhaps americans barely don't speak english [correctly]
  Hmmm ... since none of the sentences in your posting utilizes correct english (on any level), perhaps you should refrain from criticizing Americans (or any other nation whose main language is English) until you understand the language better!

  Not that the original author of this article was much better.

  BTW, attempting to make an absolute statement like "american people will always be hated by everybody around the world" only underlines your lack of objectivity, your lack of world travel and/or your lack of years of experience!

  It really is hard to believe that American companies are giving our jobs away to workers with this obvious [lack of] ability!! I guess, in the end, our companies will definitely get what they pay for!! :^d

  Posted by: bradpuett on September 13, 2003 at 10:08 PM

• Putting things on even footing
  If guest workers were paid the same as citizen or green card workers, then there would be far fewer guest workers. Factoring pay out of the equation would result in far fewer guest workers (only those who are better than citizen/green card workers, given
  that there is significant effort in bringing a guest worker in, and/or obtaining the visa).
  This isn't to say that guest workers are on average worse, but if we assume that they are on average equal, it favors the local worker.

  One way to help equalize the pay, as well as to treat guest workers far more fairly would be to liberate them from their initial host company shortly (e.g. 3 months after starting, a typical probation period in other job situations). Pay is often used as an enticement to keep personnel, and pay would then be necessary to keep said guest worker.

  A second (but far more complex and invasive) way to equalize the pay would be for the government to monitor the pay of guest workers relative to their (citizen/green card)
  peers, and penalize (severely, of course) any company found to be underpaying the guest worker.

  This is fair to the guest worker (freedom to switch companies, and equal pay), fair to the citizen/green card worker (being compared on equal footing), and holds companies to the stated reason for bringing in guest workers: Not enough local talent...
  It puts a bit of a damper on salaries in a truly
  hot market (rare goods can become outrageously expensive), but it doesn't push salaries down very far.

  I have real life experience with many workers coming from each camp. I am not in management, but I do a fair amount of mentoring. A good programmer is a good programmer regardless of the perfection of their use of the American variant of the English language. Java isn't English.
  Not that it doesn't help to have good command of the English language for communicating, which is very important, but one doesn't have to be a poet to express themselves clearly.

  I have seen quite clearly the effect on wage when a guest worker gains there green card.
  I'm proud to be able to say that I have assisted
  a very good programmer to obtain his. His wages went up in the next round of salary discussions. He was free to leave the company...

  This is a long winded way of saying that it isn't the guest workers who are to blame, nor the use of guest workers. It is the use of guest workers as indentured servants that is to blame.

  Outsourcing to areas with lower costs will happen. That has nothing to do with guest workers. In the long run, the costs start to equalize. Unfortunately, as Keane's has often been quoted: "In the long run (gentlemen), we are all dead".

  Posted by: sswerdloff on September 15, 2003 at 11:26 PM

• You hit the nail on the head...
  "As with the outsourcing the underlying problem is that (greedy) executives try to save money through shortsighted decisions and we all have to pay for it afterwards"

  You hit the nail squarely on the head there.

  This is a worrying trend - it's happening in the UK as well as the US - half my office is full of Indian "outsourcers" (the new name for "contractors"?) - they're here for X months, then they take the work back to India with them once they've learnt the ropes of our product architecture.

  I ask you - if that isn't the sick spawn of a short-sighted Board who are only in it for the short-term IPO/takeover scenario, then what is it? Commercial suicide?

  It also happens to be the inevitable future of software development in the UK (and US), unless, by some miracle, the industry wakes up and realises it's slowly letting itself bleed to death.

  These people are cheap, cheerful, reliable. They're no better than us, but they are way CHEAPER. End of story. End of a large part of the UK (and US) software industry. But that's market forces for you.

  I'm 15 years down the line in a career I thought I'd have "for life", and I'm really seriously considering where I should aim to be in 5 years time. I don't think software development is it...

  Posted by: pogo on September 16, 2003 at 06:38 AM

• It's the environment that has to change...
  Natural selection applies to the global workplace in the same way that it applies to biological entities. Evolution does not have a plan, it simply selects those entities which thrive the most in the current environment, there is no plan for the future, and what might be beneficial today could lead to a catastrophe in the future.
  What the heck does this have to do with H1 visas and outsourcing? It is the root of the issue.
  The current environment rewards corporations for providing profits to their share holders. There is no contract between the society and the corporation, hence no advantage in corporate policies that enhance the society. Simply put, the corporations don't care what effect hiring an H1 visa holder or sending a job to timbuktu will have on the society (local or global).
  If you change the environment to encourage socially conscious corporations, then you'll be on the path to a solution. If hiring H1 visa holders enhance the society, they will be hired. If outsourcing to timbuktu enhances the society, so be it. The benefit will come from changing the motive from corporate profit to social profit.

  Posted by: johnreynolds on September 23, 2003 at 02:06 PM

• 网络营销软件
  网络营销软件
  网络营销软件
  群发软件
  群发软件
  ---
  群发软件
  网络营销软件
  论坛群发软件
  网站排名软件
  群发软件
  推广小助手破解版
  论坛群发软件
  网站排名软件
  群发软件
  网络营销软件
  网站推广软件
  信息群发软件
  论坛群发软件
  信息群发软件
  博客群发软件
  qq群发软件
  邮件群发软件
  博客群建软件
  企业名录搜索软件
  信息群发软件
  邮件群发软件
  论坛群发软件
  博客群发软件
  网站推广软件
  网络营销软件
  全能营销破解版

  Posted by: 9uf009 on December 13, 2007 at 04:14 PM

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License.