Stanley Ho's Blog

New user experience in Java Web Start

As I mentioned in my earlier blog, we have decided to revamp the user experience in Java Web Start in Mustang, and the scary security dialog was the first to go. Here is more exciting news! I am very glad to announce that Andy Herrick and Margarita Fisher have completed the initial implementation of the new user experience for Java Web Start, and it is available in the promoted Mustang snapshot (build 39). You can download and try it out today.

Comments

• This all sounds cool, however, now that desktop integration stuff is automatic for signed applications, we need a way to ask the user if he or she wants a shortcut, like most Windows installers:

  [x] Desktop
  [x] Start Menu

  We need a way through the JNLP API to do this, or maybe as part of JNLP spec, don't you think?

  Also, a huge part of the JWS user experience is, unfortunately, buggy javascript/VBscript to detect whether JWS is installed, a series of confusing pages for downloading the JRE and the application, and most importantly, no way to disitribute applications in a familiar format (.exe for windows, .rpm for linux, .dmg for mac), so users will always be a little bit confused.

  We need to make it just as easy and non-confusing for the user to install a JWS application as it is for them to download Firefox or iTunes, and custom file types and multiple downloads (first download JNLP, then new window downloads more stuff) is not the way. Even with the improvements you posted about here, I probably won't distribute my applications with JWS because the download process is inevitably too hard and too confusing.

  I have a project www.rpischeduler.com and I've had many people post on the support forums saying that it won't work, for various un-traceable reasons. Either they can't install Java, or JWS gives them a nonsense error message when they try to run my program.

  Posted by: keithkml on June 07, 2005 at 09:23 AM

• Who can I talk to to get this java.net comment formatting problem fixed?

  Posted by: keithkml on June 07, 2005 at 09:24 AM

• keithkml - how about talking to yourself about using either pre or br tags?

  Posted by: kirillcool on June 07, 2005 at 01:33 PM

• I put screenshots of the new version of Java Web Start up on my blog.
  http://www.clientjava.com/blog/2005/06/07/1118155098093.html

  Posted by: scottdelap on June 07, 2005 at 07:18 PM

• 
  Keith: click on 'java-net Project' up the top and then submit an Issue.
  Helen will probably get it and is usually pretty good with getting simple but annoying (or important) things implmented.
  In the meantime, I like the pre tag idea - I'd never thought of that one.
  

  Posted by: grlea on June 07, 2005 at 10:32 PM

• Okay, the 'pre' idea is bad. : (

  Posted by: grlea on June 07, 2005 at 10:33 PM

• Stanley: it's good to see you're making lots of changes and that you've got the UE/UI guys involved.
  I'm sad to see, though, that the only change to the security dialog was a 'more information' link that is still below the buttons (and hence outside the user's viewing rectangle).
  I think there were a lot of useful comments in that blog and it looks like most of them have been ignored.
  But keep up the good work - there'll always be someone who's unhappy. Today it's me. : )

  Graham.

  Posted by: grlea on June 07, 2005 at 10:39 PM

• keithkml:

  
  We have already added custom shortcut creation support in JNLP 1.5, and it is available as part of J2SE 5.0. You should be able to customize whether your applications should have a desktop shortcut or start menu entry. The changes mentioned in this blog are mainly around the user experience. In this case, we made a tradeoff to combine the desktop integration and the trust decision together, so users will only be prompted once instead of multiple times for various desktop integration options, and these changes should improve the overall download and launching experience of your applications.

  In order to make improve the initial download experience of JRE and webstart, we will provide a deployment toolkit for browsers in Mustang. I will blog about it when it is ready. Stay tuned.

  - Stanley

  Posted by: stanleyh on June 08, 2005 at 12:58 AM

• Graham:

  
  The texts in the security dialog are not finalized yet. In fact, we are still discussing some of the blog feedbacks internally to determine how to make adjustments appropriately. Your feedbacks are valuable to us, and they have not been ignored.

  - Stanley

  Posted by: stanleyh on June 08, 2005 at 01:06 AM

• Keithkml, for installing in a familiar format (.exe, .rpm) look at the JDIC Packager.
  This takes your jnlp application and packages it in one or all of .exe, .rpm or .pkg
  

  Posted by: mthornton on June 08, 2005 at 06:27 AM

• YES, I miss the old Application Manager - very much! Why? Because I can't bloody find the whatever it's been replaced with. There was some comment about getting at it through the control panel...

  In the Java Control panel the About dialgo opens in the top left of the screen, not the middle or centered on the window as expected.

  The date shown in the "Update was last run on..." does not follow the date preferences I have set in Windows (appears to use the ridiculous month/day/year order.. sigh... YYYY/MM/DD please - it's the international standard for a reason)

  The "Java" tab of the control panel is full of wasted space. Why do i have to press a "view" button to get to the information that could easily be shown on that tab?

  What's the difference between "User" and "System" JAva Run time Versions? How is an end user supposed to know?

  "Security"tab is also nothing but wasted space when the content could easily be shown there. Why all these extra clicks to get at the info? The message "User certificates to..." is meaningless to end users.

  OH! THERE it is! You've completely hidden the only way to get at JNLP apps that are in the cache... (assuming a short cut isn't created on the first launch the apps are essentially "gone" to the user - they will go back to the web site to launch them because they will NEVER find the cache viewer). The Web Start cache viewer must be installed as a shortcut in the Start menu on Windows, and given a name that users will understand- like "Java Applications"

  Why on Earth is it called "Temporary Internet Files" ??? That only serves to get it confused with the browsers cache and says nothing about what it REALLY is, the Web Start cache viewer and app launcher. (The window title of "Java Cache Viewer" isn't the greatest.. users won't think that it is a place where they can launch applications.)

  I still don't see any way to NOT get an update via Web Start. Sometimes updates don't work as well as the previous version of an app for various reasons. Web Start forces users to the "bleeding edge", sometimes that means it will break an application in an unrecoverable way because there is no way to go back to the previous version if you have trouble with the update.

  Posted by: swpalmer on June 08, 2005 at 09:56 PM

• Stanley I did download it.

  I still think Flash plugin install is easier. And so is C#.
  http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/episode.aspx?xml=episodes/en/20040108ClickOnceJC/manifest.xml"/a>
  http://www.15seconds.com/issue/041229.htm
  And what about 1.5.04, can we get some ease there? 1.6 wide distribution is far away, lets back port some of this to 1.5.05 please.
  .V

  Posted by: netsql on June 09, 2005 at 05:40 AM

• How is ClickOnce easier than WebStart (for the user)? My initial impression is that it is all but identical in operation to WebStart.
  With ClickOnce you have to install the .NET framework first, whereas with WebStart you have to have the JRE installed; no difference there. Then in both cases you click on the link and get a download followed (perhaps) by the security warning. Finally the app runs.

  Posted by: mthornton on June 09, 2005 at 09:10 AM

• Mr Thorton(w/ Sun?),
  .NET (CLR) can be deployed in corporate enviroment where the user does not have admin privliages. Java can't. The message that you have no CLR installed is better. It runs on 64 bit windows and Webstart does not. CLR is updetable via "updateable", Java has the update button since 1.4 but it does not work. MS is VERY responsive to users/developers, I have seen it w/ my developers questions, MS is hungry, and Sun is.... well Sun. The bugs get marekd as RFE. There are many reasons. Now I WISH that JRE/Webstart was easier to deploy, I honestly do. I will use CLR or JRE based on which is easier to deploy. CLR people are aimining to be easier to deploy then Flash plug in, and JRE is not even trying for that level of ease. The only place it's easy to deploy a JRE app is to OSX, 2% of market. Also, Sun are waiting till longhorn, to release 6 and go aginst XAML, nothing we see has anything to do with users that are 1.4 or 1.5, and it's so easy to backport. We are looking at bytecode to clr transaltors and J# for our apps.
  .V

  Posted by: netsql on June 09, 2005 at 01:22 PM

• No, I don't work for Sun (nor have I in the past).

  Posted by: mthornton on June 09, 2005 at 04:27 PM

• Hi netsql,
  >> And what about 1.5.04, can we get some ease there? 1.6 wide distribution is far away, lets back port some of this to 1.5.05 please.
  Many of these changes involve rearchitecture of various subsystems, and it is difficult to backport in most cases. However, we do plan to backport the new security warning dialog to a 5.0 update release after the UI is finalized in Mustang (JavaSE 6).
  - Stanley

  Posted by: stanleyh on June 11, 2005 at 04:02 PM

• Can someone please tell me how to find the Web Start Application Launcher. I am exhausted trying to find it our some refernce on the web that will tell me. I agree with SW Palmer's rant that you really hid the viewer. How will I ecpect my user to find it to ruin my program when I cannot find it after hours of searching? I have also found that the shortcut prompt no longer happens, the splash screen never appears. I must say I wish you had stuck witht he old version - I am very worried that my users will not understand what is going on now. -- Rob

  Posted by: rbharris on June 12, 2005 at 07:17 PM

• Wow - I just found the viewer and it is amazing where it was hidden. With all due respect, would you please consider having a professional interface designer layout the next version of the Java Control Panel? I am trying to use Java to supply my customers with software but the way you change things and break them makes it very hard to present a professional image. I have already had to fix the IE no-cache problem that cropped up between versions 4 and 5 of JWS. I am hoping to use Java Web Start as a convenient way to provide a downloadable product but you have my application icon hidden in a place where typically the internet garbage is thrown out. It does not seem very confidence-instilling for an installed application to be in such a place. I am also having no luck at getting the shortcut prompt to happen so my program is literally hidden once installed with the new version of JWS. I hope that you will discuss this with an interface designer is make corrections in the next version. Thank you. -- Rob Harris

  Posted by: rbharris on June 12, 2005 at 07:46 PM

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