Will Iverson's Blog

Comments on Ajax and Web Frameworks

My previous article on web frameworks and the impact of Ajax got a lot of interesting comments. In no particular order, here are some of the general themes...

- An abstraction for Ajax/JavaScript would be very, very helpful.

I got several emails supporting this general view as well, not just the posts. Between HTML, JavaScript, CSS, the profusion of browsers, not to mention multi-language issues... clearly this is a pain point.

- There will always be a role for custom JavaScripts for particular effects.

This may be true, but the bar is also set awfully low for when you need to start using JavaScript to achieve results. As the frameworks mature, this will get better - but this also means that we are looking at yet another generation of web frameworks.

- The correct way to view the solution is more along the lines of a component framework, not a single web monolithic app.

Let's be clear - the JSF framework, and the profusion of third party components, are a very Good Thing(tm). There are an awful lot of web frameworks for Java right now, thanks to the efforts of a lot of passionate developers, but (especially for people new to the platform) it can be a bit overwhelming.

My point is that if you are writing JavaScript by hand right now, you are likely to wind up in the same spot as all of the folks who had hand-rolled assembly in their apps a decade ago. The thing that was a useful optimization or a neat hack at the time is really likely to be an albatross in just a few years. Unfortunately, the waters are a bit choppy right now, so it's not clear that there is much else to be done - especially if you hav a client that is asking for Ajax-style features today.

- There isn't really a good industry term yet for a hard-core JavaScript + OO-oriented server-side developer focused on these things yet.

"Web presentation developer" was suggested, but that seems awfully close to "web developer." Maybe something like "Ajax Java developer"?

As a final note, there is a java.net project called facelets that builds on Hans Bergsten's thoughts regarding JSF without JSP. I haven't had a chance to play with it in depth yet, but it looks interesting.

Oh, and BTW, we still have a couple of job openings. Tell 'em Will sent you.

Comments

• Thanks for mentioning Facelets, I've posted some pretty extensive 'getting started' documentation here.

  Posted by: jhook on July 21, 2005 at 11:32 PM

• Check AjaxTags: http://ajaxtags.sourceforge.net/
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/ajaxtags/

  We are currently using it with Struts.
  There are plan to integrate it with Spring XML-RPC when it's done.

  Posted by: paticubita on July 22, 2005 at 11:02 AM

• Check AjaxFaces: http://www.ajaxfaces.com. AjaxFaces: General and Complete Integration Solution for JSF and Ajax

  Posted by: ajaxfaces on July 22, 2005 at 11:31 AM

• Try Echo2 framework (http://demo.nextapp.com/InteractiveTest/ia), a AJAX component based framework. Just wonderful !

  Posted by: nparise on July 22, 2005 at 08:29 PM

• You are welcome to check out this also:
  http://www.servletsuite.com/tips/lists.htm

  XML-less Ajax ;-)

  Posted by: dnamiot on July 25, 2005 at 02:02 AM

• You are also welcome to check out http://www.herculeez.com/projects/plocit/ Java -less swing :-)

  Posted by: damianhamill on July 25, 2005 at 03:41 AM

• Ajax Java Developer name : I suggest JavaX Developer. "X" seems to be so popular nowadays.

  Posted by: geeflow on August 13, 2005 at 10:31 PM

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