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joconner's Blog

Geeky predictions for 2010

Posted by joconner on January 4, 2010 at 9:43 AM PST

 Everyone has something to say about the past. Few can see the future. Here are my predictions for 2010!

  1. Oracle will prefer Eclipse and will let NetBeans go. I don't like it anymore than you, but why would they support two (three with JDeveloper?) competing IDEs? Oracle's existing staff knows and loves Eclipse, their tooling is built around Eclipse, their plugins are built for Eclipse. Why change something if you don't need to? My only question is who will pick up the support for NetBeans, which is otherwise a great product and is definitely worth saving...just not worth it for Oracle.
  2. Chrome OS and Android OS will converge. The world doesn't need two new operating systems from Google, not for web apps. I know that these two OSes are coming at web apps from two different scales: desktop/laptop/notebook vs mobile phone. However, the APIs should be the same for maximum acceptance from the community, and that means these two will become one. You can read more about this prediction in one of my prior blogs.
  3. Google will buy LinkedIn. Although useful and still a great site, LinkedIn is getting a bit stale. Google could inject new ideas to make a good product even better.
  4. Oracle will sell off Sun's hardware business. Oracle with hardware? I can't believe it. It's too much of a departure from their software business. I think Oracle will push the hardware off to HP.
  5. Adobe will steal some of JavaFX's thunder this year prior to JavaOne by announcing its own, improved designer tool for Flex that actually exists and is available at the time of their announcement. Sun's JavaFX Designer tool will limp into existence at JavaOne 2010 and everyone will forget that Sun promised it before the end of 2009.

Got predictions of your own? Let's hear them!

 

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Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

JavaFX Authoring Tool

My pessimistic side would agree with you about the JavaFX authoring tool. Sigh. Why annouce it, saying a dev preview by end of 2009 - then keep absolultey silent about it?

hope you are wrong

1. I think this would be detrimental for java. Eclipse was already having trouble keeping pace. Not having a competitor would make it worse. More over, IBM will become Oracle's chief rival. I would imagine they would like to force IBM to spend money on dev tools.

2. don't care, but this would seem better

3. Don't care...but this would seem better

4. Oracle needs the hardware to compete with IBM for the BIG contracts. IBM's bundling of software with hardware has been a thorn in Oracle's side. If they can offer the hardware as well, then oracle gains a strategic selling advantage. I think this may be real. However, I would expect it to focus on midrange and high end and let the commodity stuff go.

5. I think the authoring tool will be announced as soon as the merger is final. I have no way of knowing, but that is my suspicion. Of course, this would be a dev preview with the final release occuring at JavaOne...which will be OracleWorld.

agree w/lstroud's #4, except...

I read a comment somewhere a while ago (on slashdot, I think, which has a few thinkers mixed in w/all the kiddies) that said Oracle probably wanted a complete stack (hardware up) to go head-to-head against Microsoft.

Sounds plausible to me, as does your comment. The only thing is: you cannot sacrifice the entry-level. That's how MS became so big.

Oracle will not sell Sun's hardware business

I'm surprised about (4). Why would anyone spend billions of dollars to buy a hardware company just to sell off its hardware business? I don't think Sun has significant software revenues and what it has is closely linked to the hardware business. I think Oracle wants to be the one stop shop for big enterprises and to keep IBM and HP out Oracle needs to sell servers and storage.

No way

Oracle really WANTS Sun's hardware business, it was a major reason they bought Sun. Just look at their Exadata system. They used to build a "database appliance" with HP hardware to compete with Teradata, but now Exadata 2 is build with their own hardware. Plus Solaris is the most popular platform for running the Oracle database, and therefore Sun hardware is very popular with Oracle customers. Now Oracle can provide an end to end stack, from the CPU and hardware right up to the middleware and services. I also disagree with you point on NetBeans. Based on your logic, they would have dumped JDeveloper a long time ago. They didn't. That's because there is a large number of internal employees that use it, it is used for some of their tools like SQL Developer, and there are a lot of Oracle customers that use it for Oracle specific development. Once they buy Sun, there will be a lot of Sun employees that use and prefer NetBeans, and Sun products built on the NetBeans platform like Visual VM, and GlassFish Enterprise Monitor. There is a PDF on Oracle's website that talks about the future of many Sun software products including NetBeans, and Oracle said they will continue to develop NetBeans to provide choice to their customers. There would be LOT of angry developers if they cut NetBeans loose because the large NetBeans fan base finds it far superior to Eclipse. I don't get your point about Adobe announcing a designer tool. They already have one, and I doubt they will ever touch JavaFX. I predict that the release of JavaFX 1.3 along with the 1.0 release of the designer tool and composer tool (like matisse) will be the real 1.0 release. Once developers have a full stack that they can use, then I predict most *Java* developers using Adobe Flex will choose Java FX instead because it is an all Java solution, and integrates really well with existing Java code and technologies. The same reason .NET developers prefer Silverlight over Flex. Even if some existing Java developers who use Flex choose not to abandon their new Flex skills, anyone new to RIA will find the use of Java FX a much better option than Flex.

JavaOne 2010?

 "... limp into existence at JavaOne 2010" You're predicting that there will be a JavaOne 2010?

Well, considering that there

Well, considering that there has not been any CFP, that usually took place in Fall, I'd bet that there will no J1 2010, or it won't be in June, or it will be very different from the past (refinement process for talks has always been very complex, with multiple reviews and edits - too complex IMO - and took months).

For the record, the Moscone

For the record, the Moscone is still booked for J1 2010: http://www.moscone.com/site/do/event/view?nav.type=0&nav.filter=1005&nav...

RE:Geeky predictions for 2010

The hardware part of sun (app servers,storage,networking etc.) will be quite useful to Oracle if they are planning to venture into cloud software service offerings, where they wont have to rely on/procure 3rd party physical infrastructure by paying up additional costs. One thing to watch for in 2010 will be where Oracle parks the MySQL or how it plugs that in the existing RDBMS game plan. i also see Java Fx Vs. Flex in the same boat as the Netbeans Vs. Eclipse. Both of them are good tools but challenges are in terms of current market share/developer community support.

I don't make predictions as

I don't make predictions as 99% of predictions are wrong, so I frankly find them a wasted effort ;-)

ButI think that NetBeans is palatable for Oracle for some reasons, one very important being the NetBeans Platform. JDeveloper doesn't have anything similar; IDEA has recently introduced it, but it's focused on IDE tasks; so basically there are only two products around, NetBeans and Eclipse RCP. Sun, among other bad things, has never historically pushed it, and in spite of it there's a huge platform of users - it sufficed for Geertjan Wielenga to devote some time to this task, and it discovered dozens, and many are very large (manufacturers, telcos, military). If you read at the interviews, most of these customers choose the NetBeans RCP because it's Swing and would never go the way of the Eclipse RCP - thus, basically the two products fit two very complementary portfolio of users. Sun's management, also considering the input from the community, has acknowledge that and recently changed attitude towards it. This segment alone can be immediately profitable by selling consultancy and education - after all, third parties and freelances (as me) are already doing business on it.

IDE Platform

Actually JDeveloper does have an equivalent core platform that is used to build other tools in Oracle such as SQL Developer; but it is not something that has been externalized. Gerard

Speculations regarding Google Chrome OS

Posted by joconner on July 9, 2009 at 1:57 AM PDT

Today's announcement of Google's Chrome OS is exciting in a few ways. I think it has implications for Java developers. With hindsight, I now think that Larry Ellison was hinting about Google's Chrome OS when he expressed some of his desires for JavaFX on small netbook-like devices.

So, without any real knowledge and armed with nothing more than a vivid imagination, I provide some of my predictions/speculations for the upcoming Google Chrome OS and the devices it will power:

  1. Google Chrome OS will be a slightly more beefy Android OS. More beefy because it will have additional hardware driver support you might find in a netbook. However, its essence will be Android OS.
  2. The Chrome browser (or a slimmed down cousin) will be the primary application on that OS. It's already integrated into Android via Webkit
  3. The developer API will be very similar to what Android G1 developers already use. Android G1 apps are essentially Java apps written to a Java-like API. Same Java language on top of the most important, core packages of the Java SE platform. And, of course, Google won't be able to call it a "Java" platform because it will be stripped down to what Google engineers consider only the core, "good" parts of Java SE APIs + Google's own Android APIs of course.
  4. Google Chrome OS will be attractive to Java engineers because it looks and feels so much like the the JVM...except it's really the Dalvik VM. Many simple applications that run on Java SE will be able to run on the Dalvik VM after a recompile. Or maybe you'll just have to run your class files through a simple converter to target the Dalvik VM. At any rate, Java developers will feel right at home.
  5. Google Chrome OS devices will need to get onto the network easily, seamlessly, regardless of Wi-Fi availability. Google really does believe that "the network is the computer". Without the internet, these devices will be severely hampered. Expect these devices to have multiple network access technologies built in. Wifi hardware will obviously be on board. But you can imagine it also having a cellular transmitter/receiver built-in too.
  6. Remember all that cellular radio spectrum that Google was interested in only one or two years back? Wouldn't it be just an awesome thing if Google purchased a huge portion of that and used it to make their Google Chrome OS devices be able to instantly jump onto that for network access? You buy the device, punch in a pre-purchased code for access, and your notebook is on the net in 5 minutes! It will be incredibly, insanely easy to get on the network with your Google Chrome OS-powered device.
  7. Hey, what's that Google Voice project anyway. Only one of the coolest telephony projects around! Maybe Google will leverage this service? Here's a scenario for you: you buy a Google Chrome OS device, open it up, agree to the terms of a Google voice membership, get a Google voice number and Google account (if you don't already have one), and the device then connects to the network using the built-in cellular hardware to connect to some of that cellular spectrum that Google will or has already purchased.
  8. After all of this, or perhaps even before this, we all start to feel a little uneasy about just how pervasive Google really is. And despite Google's mistrust and derision of Microsoft, they begin to look a little bit like Microsoft too...really, really big and really, really powerful and located at every digital turn. But this time, instead of controlling your PC, they control your network. Ooh, there's a suspenseful novel in there somewhere.

Ok, some of that's just silly, crazy talk...or is it? We'll see over the next few months.

Oh, one last thing. I just cannot resist the urge to compare Google Chrome OS to Sun's Java OS. Do you remember that? I could hardly find any references to it, although I did find an old article called Inside the IBM JavaOS Project. At some point, Sun apparently enslisted IBM to help. At any rate, the Java OS project started (and ended) a long, long time ago. It's been a decade at least. Remember the Hot Java browser? I actually ran it and used it. I remember that one of our tests at Sun was to run the SwingSet demo on it. But now I'm just distracted. What was I saying? Oh yes, there are even more similarities. Java OS is to Google Chrome OS as the Hot Java browser is to the Chrome browser. Maybe Google Chrome OS will finally be the successful reincarnation of JavaOS?

It's all fun to think about, and as I suggested, pure speculation at this point.

Related Topics >> Business      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

Probably a better comparison would be with OpenMoko.

According to some reports, e.g from Ars, you are off the mark with some items: Chrome OS will not be based on Android, will not have a Java SDK - unless they add this as a bridge to run Android apps but that would be certainly secondary, and probably optional. Its browser will be Google Chrome with the V8 JavaScript VM (Android uses SquirrelFish); and the brower will be the primary SDK - augmented by Google's RIA tech like Google Gears and O3D. In this sense, the best comparision is with Palm's new webOS. Of course I'd expect Google to reuse many low-level components from Android, like their customized Linux kernel, network stack, core media support, and other components that would be needed in a netbook. Chrome OS will be powerful enough to run the full Java SE, so we can forget the major distraction that Android was. ;-)

"Chrome OS will be powerful enough to run the full Java SE" ... it depends on whether Google will allow us to run it.

If the Chrome OS's browser is basically identical to the Chrome we know, i.e. a full featured browser including the interfaces necessary for plugins, then there's litte Google can do technically to stop somebody else to provide a JRE. Even in Android it should be relatively easy to port Java, remarkably after they introduced the native SDK. And considering that Chrome OS will be a browser-centric OS, I doubt very much that Google would remove the plugin capacity to exclude not only Java but other important plugins like Flash, Acrobat Reader, custom security plugins used by online banks, etc. Smartphones can get away with this because the devices are not powerful enough, have no decent displays or keyboards, for a first-class unrestricted browsing experience; and users don't expect full PC-level functionality from these devices.

The one thing I like about the Chrome OS/Browser is that they are taking the isolation concept to a new level within the browser with the use of separate address space for each tab. I wonder when Sun will wake up and smell the coffee and add Isolates support to the JVM.

"Google can do technically to stop somebody else to provide a JRE" Technically. In the perspective of "moral suasion", I'm sure Google can do a lot (surely a lot on Sun in the current situation, maybe after the Oracle buy things will be different). This would not be a problem for Java, as it's FLOSS and everybody could do the port. It could be a problem for JavaFX. I think there are no technical reasons for not having JavaFX on Android, but...

"add Isolates support to the JVM." Do you know that there is a complete specification for that? It's JSR 121 and it's three years old. Nothing has been done after the specification.

I have lobbied (well, the occasional annoying email and random blog or forum post) Sun in the past to release the sources for both JavaOS and HotJava. Much of that was driven wanting to see what they could do for the Java Isolate problem space. http://books.google.com/books?id=w7BQAAAAMAAJ&q=javaos&dq=javaos&ei=tMxX...

If it should be a WebOS it should also have support for Flash 10+, Silverlight, Java, JavaFX, Adobe AIR and stuff. A self called web-OS without those technologies might be difficult to be sold to Joe Customer.

re:

".....After all of this, or perhaps even before this, we all start to feel a little uneasy about just how pervasive Google really is. And despite Google's mistrust and derision of Microsoft, they begin to look a little bit like Microsoft too...."

Exactly Joe, the EU had an anti-trust case against Microsoft regarding concerns over the monopoly of IE and windows OS. Google currently has over 60 percent of the search market, has a huge reach in the email sector with gmail and now wants to enter the OS market?

Question: Will data from chrome OS usage be used to serve more targeted Google advertising?

Google are definitely timely, releasing this alongside the current netbook sales phenomenon. With netbooks predicted to ship 50,000,000 units a year by 2012 the market reach of Chrome will be huge.

Speculations regarding Google Chrome OS

Posted by joconner on July 9, 2009 at 1:57 AM PDT

Today's announcement of Google's Chrome OS is exciting in a few ways. I think it has implications for Java developers. With hindsight, I now think that Larry Ellison was hinting about Google's Chrome OS when he expressed some of his desires for JavaFX on small netbook-like devices.

So, without any real knowledge and armed with nothing more than a vivid imagination, I provide some of my predictions/speculations for the upcoming Google Chrome OS and the devices it will power:

  1. Google Chrome OS will be a slightly more beefy Android OS. More beefy because it will have additional hardware driver support you might find in a netbook. However, its essence will be Android OS.
  2. The Chrome browser (or a slimmed down cousin) will be the primary application on that OS. It's already integrated into Android via Webkit
  3. The developer API will be very similar to what Android G1 developers already use. Android G1 apps are essentially Java apps written to a Java-like API. Same Java language on top of the most important, core packages of the Java SE platform. And, of course, Google won't be able to call it a "Java" platform because it will be stripped down to what Google engineers consider only the core, "good" parts of Java SE APIs + Google's own Android APIs of course.
  4. Google Chrome OS will be attractive to Java engineers because it looks and feels so much like the the JVM...except it's really the Dalvik VM. Many simple applications that run on Java SE will be able to run on the Dalvik VM after a recompile. Or maybe you'll just have to run your class files through a simple converter to target the Dalvik VM. At any rate, Java developers will feel right at home.
  5. Google Chrome OS devices will need to get onto the network easily, seamlessly, regardless of Wi-Fi availability. Google really does believe that "the network is the computer". Without the internet, these devices will be severely hampered. Expect these devices to have multiple network access technologies built in. Wifi hardware will obviously be on board. But you can imagine it also having a cellular transmitter/receiver built-in too.
  6. Remember all that cellular radio spectrum that Google was interested in only one or two years back? Wouldn't it be just an awesome thing if Google purchased a huge portion of that and used it to make their Google Chrome OS devices be able to instantly jump onto that for network access? You buy the device, punch in a pre-purchased code for access, and your notebook is on the net in 5 minutes! It will be incredibly, insanely easy to get on the network with your Google Chrome OS-powered device.
  7. Hey, what's that Google Voice project anyway. Only one of the coolest telephony projects around! Maybe Google will leverage this service? Here's a scenario for you: you buy a Google Chrome OS device, open it up, agree to the terms of a Google voice membership, get a Google voice number and Google account (if you don't already have one), and the device then connects to the network using the built-in cellular hardware to connect to some of that cellular spectrum that Google will or has already purchased.
  8. After all of this, or perhaps even before this, we all start to feel a little uneasy about just how pervasive Google really is. And despite Google's mistrust and derision of Microsoft, they begin to look a little bit like Microsoft too...really, really big and really, really powerful and located at every digital turn. But this time, instead of controlling your PC, they control your network. Ooh, there's a suspenseful novel in there somewhere.

Ok, some of that's just silly, crazy talk...or is it? We'll see over the next few months.

Oh, one last thing. I just cannot resist the urge to compare Google Chrome OS to Sun's Java OS. Do you remember that? I could hardly find any references to it, although I did find an old article called Inside the IBM JavaOS Project. At some point, Sun apparently enslisted IBM to help. At any rate, the Java OS project started (and ended) a long, long time ago. It's been a decade at least. Remember the Hot Java browser? I actually ran it and used it. I remember that one of our tests at Sun was to run the SwingSet demo on it. But now I'm just distracted. What was I saying? Oh yes, there are even more similarities. Java OS is to Google Chrome OS as the Hot Java browser is to the Chrome browser. Maybe Google Chrome OS will finally be the successful reincarnation of JavaOS?

It's all fun to think about, and as I suggested, pure speculation at this point.

Related Topics >> Business      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

Probably a better comparison would be with OpenMoko.

According to some reports, e.g from Ars, you are off the mark with some items: Chrome OS will not be based on Android, will not have a Java SDK - unless they add this as a bridge to run Android apps but that would be certainly secondary, and probably optional. Its browser will be Google Chrome with the V8 JavaScript VM (Android uses SquirrelFish); and the brower will be the primary SDK - augmented by Google's RIA tech like Google Gears and O3D. In this sense, the best comparision is with Palm's new webOS. Of course I'd expect Google to reuse many low-level components from Android, like their customized Linux kernel, network stack, core media support, and other components that would be needed in a netbook. Chrome OS will be powerful enough to run the full Java SE, so we can forget the major distraction that Android was. ;-)

"Chrome OS will be powerful enough to run the full Java SE" ... it depends on whether Google will allow us to run it.

If the Chrome OS's browser is basically identical to the Chrome we know, i.e. a full featured browser including the interfaces necessary for plugins, then there's litte Google can do technically to stop somebody else to provide a JRE. Even in Android it should be relatively easy to port Java, remarkably after they introduced the native SDK. And considering that Chrome OS will be a browser-centric OS, I doubt very much that Google would remove the plugin capacity to exclude not only Java but other important plugins like Flash, Acrobat Reader, custom security plugins used by online banks, etc. Smartphones can get away with this because the devices are not powerful enough, have no decent displays or keyboards, for a first-class unrestricted browsing experience; and users don't expect full PC-level functionality from these devices.

The one thing I like about the Chrome OS/Browser is that they are taking the isolation concept to a new level within the browser with the use of separate address space for each tab. I wonder when Sun will wake up and smell the coffee and add Isolates support to the JVM.

"Google can do technically to stop somebody else to provide a JRE" Technically. In the perspective of "moral suasion", I'm sure Google can do a lot (surely a lot on Sun in the current situation, maybe after the Oracle buy things will be different). This would not be a problem for Java, as it's FLOSS and everybody could do the port. It could be a problem for JavaFX. I think there are no technical reasons for not having JavaFX on Android, but...

"add Isolates support to the JVM." Do you know that there is a complete specification for that? It's JSR 121 and it's three years old. Nothing has been done after the specification.

I have lobbied (well, the occasional annoying email and random blog or forum post) Sun in the past to release the sources for both JavaOS and HotJava. Much of that was driven wanting to see what they could do for the Java Isolate problem space. http://books.google.com/books?id=w7BQAAAAMAAJ&q=javaos&dq=javaos&ei=tMxX...

If it should be a WebOS it should also have support for Flash 10+, Silverlight, Java, JavaFX, Adobe AIR and stuff. A self called web-OS without those technologies might be difficult to be sold to Joe Customer.

re:

".....After all of this, or perhaps even before this, we all start to feel a little uneasy about just how pervasive Google really is. And despite Google's mistrust and derision of Microsoft, they begin to look a little bit like Microsoft too...."

Exactly Joe, the EU had an anti-trust case against Microsoft regarding concerns over the monopoly of IE and windows OS. Google currently has over 60 percent of the search market, has a huge reach in the email sector with gmail and now wants to enter the OS market?

Question: Will data from chrome OS usage be used to serve more targeted Google advertising?

Google are definitely timely, releasing this alongside the current netbook sales phenomenon. With netbooks predicted to ship 50,000,000 units a year by 2012 the market reach of Chrome will be huge.

Link and run: Binding var and def variables

Posted by joconner on June 27, 2009 at 12:22 PM PDT

The Flex guys have enjoyed this for a long time. When I discussed JavaFX with a friend who is familiar with Flex, he shrugged the feature off, clearing unimpressed with JavaFX despite his appreciation for the feature itself. Still, for Java enthusiasts, bind is a welcome language feature.

Another link and run post. Read more about using the bind keyword in JavaFX in the blog tip Binding var and def variables.

Related Topics >> Programming      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

Link and run: Binding var and def variables

Posted by joconner on June 27, 2009 at 12:22 PM PDT

The Flex guys have enjoyed this for a long time. When I discussed JavaFX with a friend who is familiar with Flex, he shrugged the feature off, clearing unimpressed with JavaFX despite his appreciation for the feature itself. Still, for Java enthusiasts, bind is a welcome language feature.

Another link and run post. Read more about using the bind keyword in JavaFX in the blog tip Binding var and def variables.

Related Topics >> Programming      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

JavaFX for-loop considerations

Posted by joconner on June 23, 2009 at 8:50 PM PDT

I hate to simply drop a link and run, but that's essentially what I'm doing here until others learn about my new blog Learning JavaFX.

My most recent dip into JavaFX involves for-loop constructions. And this experience brings up an interesting question for me. How do you access a variable outside the loop if it contains the same name as the "formal parameter" of the loop itself?

For examples of this and more details, read the blog entry:

Variables in a for-loop

Related Topics >> Programming      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

JavaFX for-loop considerations

Posted by joconner on June 23, 2009 at 8:50 PM PDT

I hate to simply drop a link and run, but that's essentially what I'm doing here until others learn about my new blog Learning JavaFX.

My most recent dip into JavaFX involves for-loop constructions. And this experience brings up an interesting question for me. How do you access a variable outside the loop if it contains the same name as the "formal parameter" of the loop itself?

For examples of this and more details, read the blog entry:

Variables in a for-loop

Related Topics >> Programming      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

Learning JavaFX?

Posted by joconner on June 14, 2009 at 8:19 PM PDT

Long ago, I started a series called JavaFX Learning Curve Journal. Those articles/journals were on java.sun.com at the very beginning of the JavaFX project. I recently tried to find some of those articles, and I think they've been removed or improved significantly. They're certainly not recognizable in their original form. That's probably a good thing. The language has changed since then, and we all know how absolutely misleading and frustrating an outdated article can be.

I'm still interested in this new language though, more so now than then really. When I moved from Sun a couple years ago, I knew JavaFX wasn't ready for prime time. I stopped tinkering with it. I stopped reading about it. I stopped writing about it. However, I'm re-evaluating now.

JavaFX certainly seems to be the future of desktop applications. I know there was a lot of denying that Swing and JavaFX were competing. But let's just face the truth ok. Limited resources, limited time, limited developers....Sun can't put its continuous efforts into both, right? Something will get starved for resources. I spent a lot of time becoming proficient with Swing. If you are a Swing developer, you most certainly put in a lot of time learning it as well. However, if you want to continue developing Java desktop user interfaces, I think the future is JavaFX. Sun just isn't backing down from it. Despite its shaky start, JavaFX does seem ready for serious consideration at this point.

So, I've done two things to jump back into the JavaFX mix:

  1. I've started a new blog called Learning JavaFX. If you're just learning this language, you can fumble along with me. We'll figure out some of it together. If I can do it (which is not yet proven), you most certainly can! I learn by doing and sharing. Hopefully, you'll benefit too!
  2. I've started a Twitter account learningjavafx. Subscribe to those tweets if you'd like. You'll find out where I'm succeeding with the language. And if you've read my blogs before, you know I don't pull punches either. If I don't like something about a tool, I say it, trying to be fair of course. So I hope to give it to you raw, my experience learning JavaFX.

I'm just getting started of course. So this isn't a bad time to start listening in, especially if you're just getting started too. We'll tackle this learning curve together, and hopefully have some fun along the way.

Related Topics >> Programming      
Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first)

Well, but with Oracle stepping in, I don't think we will have resource problems in future. Oracle's style is either to stop it, or to properly develop it. Given that, it's not necessary that the most important parts of Swing are developed by Sun. The most interesting developments IMO are with SwingLabs, that is an independent open source project.

Hi John,I'm a Chinese boy! I have started to learn JavaFX a week ago.Glad to follow you!

I'd have no problem trading up my 8+ years of Swing development exp for JavaFX if they're was any demand in the marketplace for those skills - but right now there isn't any. Well any in this part of the UK at any rate, stated my current position at end of http://tinyurl.com/myvrlc I can't find much of any cliently-Java work. Not that I'm singling out JavaFX here, theres a general lack of significant interest in Silverlight, Flex RIAs in general. Seems to be a big difference between what technologies developers find hot (ruby,groovy,grails) and what employers are asking for right now. Actually I'm a little shocked/horrified it hasnt changed much in last 10 years, still very much archetypal Java/J2EE/C++, Struts(1.0), JSF(1.0), EJB(2.0). I depend on my job to pay my bills, learning JavaFX almost certainly won't for the immediate future (if ever). I also touched on the outdated JavaFX posts http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2116031308 last week and Josh said send him links to old articles and he'll get rid of them http://twitter.com/joshmarinacci/status/2118421756 (only on his sites?) I thought maybe some article guidance notes might help, always state the version article written by, where possible tag blog posts with relevant javafx version category? possible even use badges? just because an articles using an outdated API dosnt necessary mean its useless. ref http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123031242 , http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123047900 , http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123065276

Learning JavaFX?

Posted by joconner on June 14, 2009 at 8:19 PM PDT

Long ago, I started a series called JavaFX Learning Curve Journal. Those articles/journals were on java.sun.com at the very beginning of the JavaFX project. I recently tried to find some of those articles, and I think they've been removed or improved significantly. They're certainly not recognizable in their original form. That's probably a good thing. The language has changed since then, and we all know how absolutely misleading and frustrating an outdated article can be.

I'm still interested in this new language though, more so now than then really. When I moved from Sun a couple years ago, I knew JavaFX wasn't ready for prime time. I stopped tinkering with it. I stopped reading about it. I stopped writing about it. However, I'm re-evaluating now.

JavaFX certainly seems to be the future of desktop applications. I know there was a lot of denying that Swing and JavaFX were competing. But let's just face the truth ok. Limited resources, limited time, limited developers....Sun can't put its continuous efforts into both, right? Something will get starved for resources. I spent a lot of time becoming proficient with Swing. If you are a Swing developer, you most certainly put in a lot of time learning it as well. However, if you want to continue developing Java desktop user interfaces, I think the future is JavaFX. Sun just isn't backing down from it. Despite its shaky start, JavaFX does seem ready for serious consideration at this point.

So, I've done two things to jump back into the JavaFX mix:

  1. I've started a new blog called Learning JavaFX. If you're just learning this language, you can fumble along with me. We'll figure out some of it together. If I can do it (which is not yet proven), you most certainly can! I learn by doing and sharing. Hopefully, you'll benefit too!
  2. I've started a Twitter account learningjavafx. Subscribe to those tweets if you'd like. You'll find out where I'm succeeding with the language. And if you've read my blogs before, you know I don't pull punches either. If I don't like something about a tool, I say it, trying to be fair of course. So I hope to give it to you raw, my experience learning JavaFX.

I'm just getting started of course. So this isn't a bad time to start listening in, especially if you're just getting started too. We'll tackle this learning curve together, and hopefully have some fun along the way.

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Well, but with Oracle stepping in, I don't think we will have resource problems in future. Oracle's style is either to stop it, or to properly develop it. Given that, it's not necessary that the most important parts of Swing are developed by Sun. The most interesting developments IMO are with SwingLabs, that is an independent open source project.

Hi John,I'm a Chinese boy! I have started to learn JavaFX a week ago.Glad to follow you!

I'd have no problem trading up my 8+ years of Swing development exp for JavaFX if they're was any demand in the marketplace for those skills - but right now there isn't any. Well any in this part of the UK at any rate, stated my current position at end of http://tinyurl.com/myvrlc I can't find much of any cliently-Java work. Not that I'm singling out JavaFX here, theres a general lack of significant interest in Silverlight, Flex RIAs in general. Seems to be a big difference between what technologies developers find hot (ruby,groovy,grails) and what employers are asking for right now. Actually I'm a little shocked/horrified it hasnt changed much in last 10 years, still very much archetypal Java/J2EE/C++, Struts(1.0), JSF(1.0), EJB(2.0). I depend on my job to pay my bills, learning JavaFX almost certainly won't for the immediate future (if ever). I also touched on the outdated JavaFX posts http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2116031308 last week and Josh said send him links to old articles and he'll get rid of them http://twitter.com/joshmarinacci/status/2118421756 (only on his sites?) I thought maybe some article guidance notes might help, always state the version article written by, where possible tag blog posts with relevant javafx version category? possible even use badges? just because an articles using an outdated API dosnt necessary mean its useless. ref http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123031242 , http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123047900 , http://twitter.com/osbald/status/2123065276

JavaFX Designer Tool...where is it?

Posted by joconner on June 10, 2009 at 10:40 AM PDT

At JavaOne 2009, Sun demonstrated a new JavaFX designer tool. You can even view the demo online. To shortcut right to the section that shows the tool, move to about 23:00 minutes into the video.

There are obvious questions that are not answered. So obvious, in fact, that I'm slightly baffled that I can't yet find an answer:

  1. Where is this new tool?
  2. Is it a standalone tool separate from NetBeans?
  3. Will it plugin to NetBeans or Eclipse?

If I'm not mistaken, at the end of that video, Nandini said that the tool would be available at the end of the year. At the end of the year? Wow. Why announce something now that's not done?

Do you remember two (three?) years ago when Sun made its first announcements about JavaFX itself and presented demos of it at JavaOne? When we all got home, we realized that JavaFX wasn't really ready and we couldn't really use it. That announcement was definitely premature, but this year's conference gives me confidence that finally JavaFX is a consideration for me in my real job. However, why continue the pattern of announcing things so early? Why announce a designer tool that is apparently not available for even a preview download? Why? This behavior really is frustrating to consumers...that's me, a developer that wants to use JavaFX and any decent tool I can find. I'm glad that something is in the plans...but it would also have been nice to know what exists TODAY for designing JavaFX applications.

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Thanks for this post. I never have heard before about the JavaFX designer tool. This sides http://sellmic.com/blog/2009/06/05/javafx-authoring-tool-demo-at-javaone... http://sellmic.com/blog/2009/06/13/new-screenshots-of-the-javafx-design-... looks a lot promising.

At http://www.heise.de/developer/JavaOne-Top-Thema-JavaFX-eine-Einschaetzun... there stand in german "Nandini Ramani – Sun Director of Engineering (JavaFX Platform) – zeigte "live" eine Preview eines JavaFX Authoring Tools, welches Ende des Jahres erscheinen soll." In english it meand: "Nandini Ramani – Sun Director of Engineering (JavaFX Platform) – shows "live" a preview of a JavaFX Authoring Tool, which should come out in at the end of this year."

I think JavaFX Authoring Tool demos were lucky to look like beta quality. In JavaPosse #258 Tor said he was surprised they made the tool workable for demos for Java One so we shouldn't expect anything soon. I am sure JavaFX will get more open - for now they decided they need to concentrate on quick development so they don't want to be dragged in conversation about this or that change. They listen, but don't want to discuss. Bugs are resolved and new features introduced, but surely being resource constrained stop the team from addressing every aspect of the framework in instant manner. Which is a shame. As is the way community can participate in bug/feature reguest submission - now it is default that every bug is set to internal access which hides it from submiter until admins change issue's status.

"Wow. Why announce something now that's not done?" That's how I feel about JavaFX in general. It's an RIA toolkit where the 1.0 version was actually describing the number of widgets available. The API has broken backwards compatibility several times, yet we don't even have a grid or tree yet. No offense, but I doubt these will be that great when they do launch: these are non trivial components that need to be flexible. 1.0 is far too generous for JavaFX. But given Flash and Silverlight's progress, I guess it was deliver that or more promises.

Whp - I hope I didn't make it sound on the podcast like we hacked something together for JavaOne. I didn't want to show anything fake at JavaOne - so we were building the real pieces and it was a challenge to have it all working properly in time. There are however some big pieces that simply aren't ready yet so we aren't ready for a general release yet.

I am really waiting for the designer, before I care to take a look at JavaFX. Nowadays it doesn't make any sense to develop UI by hand.

Maybe they are planning another launch at Devoxx like they did last year.

The core problem is Sun's firmly closed/proprietary, even secretive, development model for JavaFX. It's even worse than the JDK and other projects pre-SCSL because even at that time we used to received timely betas, now we don't have that, only for JavaFX 1.0 Sun released a Preview release (and with 1.0 a preview of JavaFX Mobile), but there was no public prerelease build of JavaFX 1.2, which is a low point as the significant new functionality in this release pretty much assures that it has some bugs that dodged internal testing... so, wise developers will wait the first maintenance release (1.2.1 or whatever) to start deploying nontrivial apps. And for the Design Tool it's the same thing, the stuff demoed at JavaOne seems complete and stable enough (unless presenters were really lucky) to be at least beta quality; I would expect a public beta right now and not having that is a big disappointments as the NetBeans plugin, however improved, still misses even the most basic visual design facilities. People are already complaining that JavaFX is not yet open source (except for javafxc), but it's even worse than that. When debugging/profiling apps I sorely miss runtime source code to "step in" interesting stuff; even sources with a non-free license would help. And I have reported a few bugs to the JavaFX JIRA, but not having access to recent builds (milestones if not dailies) severely restricts my ability to collaborate (i.e., perform free work for Sun). Perhaps Sun is just tight-assed with the competition against Flash and Silverlight, or ongoing business talks for OEM mobile runtimes, Java Store etc., so they want to keep upcoming features up their sleeves... or they're keeping it closed as a "bonus" until the Oracle buyout is done and Oracle decides the strategy for JavaFX... whatever is the reason, the current development blows, and Sun missing the JavaOne / JavaFX 1.2 opportunity to open it even a little bit was my hardest disappointment.

End of year message not limited to JavaFX, they're saying much the same about JWebPane now despite promising an early release for Swing in Q1 this year. Hugely disappointed on this front. Where do they stand on Netbeans? 6.7 RC2 is out now so the final version can't be too far away. Is this update unasvisable for anybody thinking of using the JavaFX plugin? seems this is only bundled with 6.5.1? How long for? is an update for 6.7 planned before the end-of-year?

In the keynote they made a great show of being put on the spot to promise "by the end of the year" by Jonathan. Like the 2007 and 2008 announcements, perhaps the vapor announcement is meant to buy time. I predict a preview or beta release by JavaOne 2010.

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