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The time for Java 3
Posted by daniel on January 07, 2004 at 08:32 AM | Comments (8)
While others left Steve Jobs' MacWorld keynote yesterday thinking about the new mini iPods and GarageBand application, I thought a bit about Java 3.
I always walk out of a Steve Jobs' keynote glad that someone is driving the bus at Apple. I don't agree with all of his decisions, but the market gets a clear picture of Apple's direction from Jobs' public addresses. For example, with Mac OS X, Apple drew a line in the sand and said "here's our strategy going forward" and they maintained their so-called "Classic" OS so that existing users had several years to safely migrate. Not much later, Jobs made it clear to developers that Apple's strategy was to move everything to OS X - he even held a mock memorial service for Mac OS 9.
For Java developers, Apple has drawn similar lines in the sand. When they debuted Mac OS X with J2SE 1.3 in the box, they announced that Java 2 would never be supported on Classic. When they brought J2SE 1.4.1 to Jaguar, they made it clear that this version would not be made available on 10.0 and 10.1. Apple has been willing to tell customers that their machine will continue to work fine the way it is, but if they want the newest features, they will have to move to a more modern machine or operating system.
Can't we do that with Java? There are enough changes coming in J2SE 1.5 to the language and the way developers will be able to program, that this might be the right time to think about moving to Java 3. Declare J2SE 1.6 to be the first release of the Java 3 platform. Take a fresh look at where we are. What is the bloat that needs to go? Redefine the core - what is essential in the language and APIs. Draw a line in the sand and decide what needs to be removed or changed or added.
Can we consider the implications of speed, memory, and connectivity in our devices and ask whether some of the (mostly future anticipating) decisions about the Java platform still apply. Or - is it too late. Are we going to be forced to carry everything forward with us as Java continues to grow and expand. What about a transition plan? To help spur this discussion, I've linked to Elliotte Rusty Harold's summer 2002 ONJava article on the 10 Reasons we need Java 3.0 in Also in Java Today. Use the feedback to this blog entry to share your thoughts on whether or not Java 3 is a good idea.
In their latest "Eye on performance" article Micro performance benchmarking , Jack Shirazi and Kirk Pepperdine note that "The Java runtime's ability to dynamically optimize running code [...] has resulted in our needing to take much more care when we use " micro-performance benchmarking. They warn that "Just-in-time (JIT) Compiler optimizations and variations overwhelm any detectable differences in underlying performance"
In Projects and Communities the Java Desktop community wants you to take a survey asking you to help shape the J2SE desktop content for JavaONE. You are invited to rate various proposed topics and to comment on what sessions would be most useful for you. Also the JavaPedia page on individuals presents "a list of people associated with Java & related technologies" . Add to the list or participate in the meta discussion below the line about the list.
Two bloggers take a look at Apple's mini iPod offerings. Bill Day asks Will Cell Phones Render iPods Obselete. He asks "Will cellpods drive the iPod mini and other dedicated digital music players increasingly up market the same way they are putting pressure on dedicated digital cameras? Or will Apple deliver on rumors that have been floating around for months that they might be working on an iPhone, one upping the cellpod makers at their own game? " Meanwhile, John Mitchell looks around MacWorld and also comments on the mini iPod. In Apple Flashers
he writes " It's tiny and very slick. Even better, the control felt pretty nice. Alas, in all too typical Apple style, the $249 price tag is just plain silly -- they should have hit the $199 price point."
In today's Weblogs , Chris Melissinos takes assesses the current and anticipated state of gaming in 2004: New Blog Resolution, Holiday Gaming, and Other Bits . He also reports that the "focus of the Game Technologies Group on client side development will pay off for the game development community in a big way. With the ability to focus on a specific set of game related APIs, it will be much easier to guarantee cross platform portability with performance across a wider range of platforms than any other technology currently in the market. Add in the ability to target a variety of devices (cell phones, portals, set top box) for additional game play features and you start building a very compelling, network centric revenue and game play 'platform' for developers to utilize. "
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Comments
Comments are listed in date ascending order (oldest first) | Post Comment
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Let's ditch the deprecated methods
As a first step in terms of "drawing a line in the sand" let's finally purge the JRE of all those deprecated methods.
Do we really need Enumeration AND Iterator? Is there any way to get rid of Enumeration without causing a boatload of problems (assuming we are junking deprecated methods and taking other 'extreme' measures)?
I think at the very least we should drop pre-Java2 deprecated methods and obsolete classes
Posted by: swpalmer on January 07, 2004 at 11:09 AM
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YES! this is what we need
As a enthusiast java developer this is a dream of mine - a cleaner less bloated/(ambigus) API.
1) I want all of the classes that have been supplanted by new and better versions to disappear - no Vector, no Hashtable, no useless AWT classes.
2) I want all of the best practices mentioned in Joshua Blochs "Effective Java" implemented (no copy constructor on String etc)
3) I want a better packageing of AWT/SWING - there should be only one windowing library - but image processing etc should be cleanly separated (maybe C# does this better?)
------------
My wild dream is that Mr Bloch, Mr Gosling, Mr Gamma and other luminaries would do a fork of GNU Classpath ( http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/classpath.html ) to prototype-implement these ideas in an open forum - I'd surely pitch in my spare coding time....
Posted by: biehl on January 07, 2004 at 12:22 PM
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Conversion helper
At least as far as some of the deprecated methods go (many of the are just "use Y instead of X" tyepe changes), and for Enumeration to Iterator conversion it should be possible to write a tool to automate this.
Also, some of the things that are currently included in the standard distro could probably be safely dropped out into optional packages. I'm mainly thinking of JDBC here but a more controvertial idea could be AWT/Swing.
I really like the idea of getting rid of primitive types as well, it would make the language _much_ cleaner, and this should really be a compiler optimization, not something for the programmer to worry about (although I think I hear the phrase "a sufficiently smart compiler..." somewhere in the background!).
Ian.
Posted by: iphillips on January 08, 2004 at 02:35 AM
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re: Time for Java 3
I agree Dan. I think there should be a lot of changes in Java (for the better) and a Java 3 rolled out as well!
I was just telling someone the other day how large the java api is now. I think JDK 1.6 (aka Java 3) should remove ALL deprecated methods and classes, right off. That should cut down quite a bit. With a move to Java 3, developers will know that they are going to have compile issues, so be prepared. Next, what gives with the CORBA packages? There are tons of corba stuff and I have not met one developer that uses it. I realize it IS used, but why is it standard? Remove it, make it a javax separate download. Things like web services, xml pull parsing, jdbc, and "hopefully" my pluggable framework make more sense.
My beef is Java Web Start. Man is this an aweful piece of dung. I mean, it works, yes, but it is a pretty sad way to ensure applications are up to date. Having used Eclipse and its architecture, and also working on a similar plugin engine with extension mechanism, services, reloadable plugins, deployable plugin archive files and so forth, it's about time Java comes with a solid pluggable framework for any type of application use, that handles plugins, unload/reload at runtime (hot deploy) and so forth. More and more developers are loving the idea of developing plugins for applications that exist rather than creating from scratch. A solid, well implemented engine can save a LOT of time for development, not to mention the ability to reload at runtime increases development time greatly by not having to restart the JVM and application process every time a change is made. I am very surprised this is not common place by now. Servlet containers have had the ability to reload jsp pages when they change, and servlet code, immediately, saving tons of time from having to restart the web application. Just off the top of my head it saves over 1/2 hour a day in development. In a team of 16 developers that is one extra developer a day, free. Not to mention pluggable architecture smake it a lot easier to work with remote teams of developers.
Anyway, I am in agreement, a Java 3 is needed. Let's start by doing what I said and you said, get rid of the bloat! We need a smaller JRE for installations and download. It would be even nice to see an installation tool come with Java that allows you to build a "rt.jar" that your app needs without requiring the entire library. Then you can more easily distribute your application. You may even be able to run Java 3 in replacement of J2ME by allowing a custom rt.jar built for your app, rather than taking on the entire library!
Posted by: buckman1 on January 08, 2004 at 07:17 AM
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Java 3.0
Drawing a line in the sand and moving to a more refined API is essential.
If Windows had done this we would have a lot less bugs and holes in it. Trying to provide backwards compatability in Java for ever will produce an API as confusing as Windows.
As long as the compatibility issues are clearly documented and what a developer needs to change are available I am in favour of it.
Just don't do it every 2 years.
Posted by: ineill on January 08, 2004 at 07:36 AM
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Fix the name!!!
If we're going to throw out cruft, let's deprecate the current, confusing naming convention and start anew with something that makes sense. This Java 2 Standard Edition 1.4 business is silly. The next major version of Java should be called Java 3.0. The version following that, 3.1. That's much less obscure than Java 3 Standard Edition 1.6.
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