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What restrains Java from becoming the trendiest Desktop GUI ?

Posted by isolatednetworks on January 30, 2007 at 5:19 PM PST

I don't know much. In fact it is almost true if I say I don't know anything about java at all... But I have used some java web applications such as eshare chat. And I recently used a yahoo messenger on the web, that loaded after flashing the java logo.

Java has been there on the web, but I understand not so much on the desktop. May be this has been Java's focus. But with the Java Desktop, it is changing...

Why wouldn't java become the easiest and trendiest Desktop GUI ? Java has powered several applications, and the java programmers are very creative.

So what would stop Java from becoming the trendiest Desktop GUI ? It could make life easy, it could make life even more interesting. Could develop so well as to make Leopard look like the shell of the bygone era ????

Comments
received till 05 30 pm India Standard Time, Thursday, February 1

@fiath: Sorry but I do have some experience with Java GUIs that goes back to AWT and if it wasn't for the new GroupLayout I would say that the layout managers suck. I do understand their concept and how they help to keep your application independent of the desktop resolution. But when I compare Java's RAD support with other languages, it is just not there yet. And the lack of support for many cool desktop features. We add to wait for Java 6 in order to have integration with basic stuff like the tray. And on Windows, developers still have to resort to binary launchers to make the application start like a native one.
Posted by: pjmlp on February 01, 2007 at 03:28 AM

pjmlp: Swing layout managers are actually very easy to work with, and it is the best thing I have come accross for creating user interfaces. Having said that, I do not use graphical builders to create UI's, and I do appreciate that you need to learn a lot up front with Swing. Hopefully this is something that the Swing Application Framework (targetted for Java 7) will sort out.
Posted by: fiath on February 01, 2007 at 01:11 AM

Trends come and go, Swing is here to stay. I'll make a prediction: "2008 will kick off with a new generation of enterprise applications written in Swing". There I've said it. If you define a Killer app as an application which shakes an industry then killer it will be.
Posted by: aronsmith on January 31, 2007 at 05:03 PM

I see a lot of Java scripts on web but not Java. Maybe we’ll see more Java applications on web if there is a better web framework such as echo2. I recently ran into a flash application at http://roxik.com/pictaps/index.html It’s a very cool application and makes me wonder if that can be done using Java. As far as desktop applications, I certainly would like to see a good Java media framework, a better application deployment and code protection if needed. In my opinion, it is not Java developers’ job to ask users to install Java runtime. It’s Sun’s job. It’s true that C# requires runtime also. But Microsoft can easily make the .net framework as part of Windows. Most desktop applications run under windows not Solaris
Posted by: jdevp2 on January 31, 2007 at 03:06 PM

If I had to point something out, I would say it is the lack of buzz around Java.
Here's the latest thing that Mono folks are doing.

I read on some forum that the biggest problem with Java in general is not the language or the platform itself is getting old, but that Java folk themselves are getting old.

We have a ton of useful apps out there, but a killer app, none. Not Azureus, not Eclipse, none.

Buzz, buzz, buzz.....
Posted by: hchaudh1 on January 31, 2007 at 11:28 AM

well, multimedia support for one. if you want to make the trendiest desktop GUI using swing, you will need good multimedia support and pure java multimedia support is lagging behind all its competitors.
Posted by: walterc on January 31, 2007 at 08:54 AM

Romain: I was talking w/ Chet about this problem re: Timing Framework. the other xml type frameworks javaguy mentioned unless I'm mistaken are for quickly creating your layouts, not for "Filthy Rich Client" type of effects, which is what I'd love to see to be inline w/ Swing's competitors. W/ regards to TimingFramework, what I was discussing w/ Chet(after I suggested MouseTrigger to him) was it would be awesome to hook the TimingFramework to AffineTransform. That way you could easily scale, rotate etc w/out custom painting. But the general gist is that when we can start doing that...well then I think we are moving in the right direction to really open up the power of swing easily. Mind you I have no problems w/ custom painting :)
Posted by: sjlum on January 31, 2007 at 08:36 AM

Swing and all the layout managers are a pain to work with. I wanted to do an small application in Swing and had to resort to the new GroupLayout. All the other layout managers are a pain if you have a background in Delphi/WinForms.
Posted by: pjmlp on January 31, 2007 at 07:20 AM

javaguy44: Many other solutions have been around for years.
Posted by: gfx on January 31, 2007 at 05:02 AM

As Romain says, that is exactly the problem. Who is working on the xml type markup? I hope F3 isn't all there is
Posted by: javaguy44 on January 31, 2007 at 04:13 AM

You give for granted that Java is not the easiest and trendiest Desktop GUI.
Why? Is it just your opinion or is there any fact to support that?
All I can say is that Swing is the dominant toolkit, so people are building things with Swing, and that there're lots of Java applications out there, both Swing and SWT based.
Cheers,
Antonio
Posted by: vieiro on January 31, 2007 at 01:31 AM

Java could become the trendiest Desktop GUI out there. We have everything we need... except it takes too much time to build very cool UIs when compared to WPF, Apollo or Mac OS X's Cocoa/Core Image/Core Video/Core Graphics/Core Animation stack.
Posted by: gfx on January 30, 2007 at 06:50 PM

Sorry for my bad English...

What do you think if I promise you a new paradigm of development very near of XAML/WPF but in Java? What about developing the layout of the GUI in XML in an easy way with fully 3D support (JOGL and soft based), video on texture, MP3 streaming, DataBinding, Java pluggable code (code behind) and so on? Deploying of apps,webs or games could be made by Java Web Start..... How it sounds?

Posted by av6767

Ans: Sounds good, it is not important what programming techniques are used to improve the "Java Desktop", but desktop interface has to be Java- network (at) isolatednetworks dot com

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